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Old 02-12-2021, 12:03   #16
Box
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Put on your reading boots fellas - this one's a doozie............

Aviation as a feeder?
Aviation as a feeder for what?

Have you ever met any SF Officers who came from aviation? Yes and No.
I've seen lots of former signal guys, MPs, Artillery, Chemical Officers, and a ton of Infantry Branch become 18A's but never an aviator.
I did have an ODA Warrant Officer - 180A - that had a stint as a helicopter pilot. I have no idea why he went from flying whirlybirds to being in SF - i never asked. This was in the early 90's and he was already a CW3 when I met him. Great Guy.
In 2005 I had a Civil Affairs Captain attached to my ODA and we found out halfway through the rotation that he had been an Apache Pilot - also a great guy.

Did they have any extra rapport when working with aviators from a CAB or a sister service?
Partway through my 2005 trip, we got ambushed - we didn't have a TACP attached to the team and as things progressed, the CA Captain ended up on the radio in his truck talking to the aircraft in what sounded like a foreign language and they started shooting at stuff for him - so we let him have at it while we herded our Afghan Militia like we would have herded cats.

What did they bring to the table?
We found out later that evening that he was a former Apache pilot with a LOT of flight hours under his belt so he absolutely knew how to talk on the radio about shooting at targets on the ground. I DID ask him why he switched and he said it was because he wanted a break. Going from Aviation to SF just because you might someday make a good substitute for a TACP is a horrible waste of talent and skill. He had a reason and was in Civil Affairs - NOT Special Forces.
The ODA Warrant officer never did anything that make me think "wow, this guys knows some cool aircraft shit" and its a good thing he does. He was however, an exceptional SF guy. He knew SF shit frontwards and backwards. Being a great SF guy is what he brought to the table - he was my measuring stick for every 180A that I worked with for a long long time.


That being said - if you have a foundation in the Infantry, SF would be a fine path to follow. If you had a foundation in Aviation and still wanted to contribute to SOF - there is an Army Special Operations Aviation Command that would love to put you through their assessment and selection process when you are ready. They would DEMAND that you excel at performing in an Aviation role. One of their founders went on to become a four star general and USSOCOM Commander - so there is certainly a future in SOF Aviation if aviation is your thing.

As an ODA Commander, the 'New Space' industry will continue to rapidly develop - while you are busy focusing on the non-space related day-to-day business of a Special Forces A-Detachment. if aviation is your thing, Special Forces is not for you. Those emerging technologies will STILL be fielded as assets and then employed to provide actionable intelligence that would eventually be passed on to an ODA - maybe even 'your' ODA. Then, those targets could be prosecuted by boots on the ground. The thing is - those assets and information would be developed, fielded, employed, collected, analyzed, prioritized, and assigned by people NOT serving on an ODA so again - if aviation is your thing - SF probably is not your thing.

If you pursue aviation and find yourself in SOF Aviation, you might become indirectly or even DIrectly involved in the process of collecting and pushing actionable intel down to the operator but you're not going to action that data if you are busy in the cockpit saying things like "tree, fife, and niner"
The same trickle down process you mention will ALWAYS flow back and forth between the prime contractors and the fat corrupt bureaucracy - you wont be a part of that either if you are busy either flying little Birds, or leading host Nation troops in combat.

At some point, Monty Hall is going to ask you to pick a door.
Behind Door Number One is an ODA doing what ODA's do
Behind Door Number Two is an Aviator - with cool sunglasses and neat flying machines.
Behind Door Number Three is a lucrative career as a defense contractor rubbing elbows with an increasingly corrupt bureaucracy.

YOU have to choose the door.
The beauty of it all - is that you don't have to play 'Lets Make a Deal' - Monty Hall isn't going to send you home with a zonk prize if you pick the wrong door. The choice is all yours.

If you like the ability to land 500 tons marbles from orbit for the guerillas to play with, then being an ODA Team Leader means you are going to stand there and watch while your TACP or 18E runs the equipment that lands the alien spacecraft full of magic slingshot ammunition. Maybe 18A isn't the MOS you are looking for - maybe an enlisted MOS would be more rewarding.

If you "really really freakin' believe in the FID mission" then you need to understand that guerillas are the BAD guys that SF tangles with when they are doing Foreign Internal Defense - so you just gave 500 tons of marbles to the wrong people (you should try politics - congress does that shit ALL.THE.TIME.) - just kidding with you - but there IS a difference and it DOES matter.
Guerillas are who SF works with when they do Unconventional Warfare. There are TONS of people in congress - today - collecting a paycheck - that also "[I]really really freakin' believe{/I]" in FID that would that shit a giant gold egg if they found out you were giving marbles to guerillas.

Another option would be supporting the mission. Maybe your BEST contribution might actually be in support of SOF. Names like Billy Waugh, Bob Howard, Robby Miller, Aaron Bank, Roy Benavidez, and a long long list of men of such greatness that this nation will never truly appreciate...
...all of them needed support at one point or another. Even if it was just a supply guy that made sure they had bullets and hand grenades. They all needed a ride to the battlefield. Everyone needs support - you dont need to wear a uniform to support a mission.

In the most sincerest of intentions - pick the door that appeals to you the most. The "Monty Hall Problem" does not exist in this context - all three doors are opened to you - all you have to do is pick which one appeals to you the most. There's no trick - there's no music that goes WAh WAH WAAHHH when you find out that you picked a door with a goat behind it. All "you" have to do is just accept the fact that you cant go through all three doors at once.

You also need to understand that very few folks in SF desire to interact with someone that seems to be communicating the message that they seek to use Special Forces as a stepping stone to some other end. That is why so many posts like this one tend to go south on the OP. As much as you might intend NOT to communicate that message - EVERY.SINGLE.POST.EVER. that starts out with...
"Ive been thinking about going SF, - but..."
...immediately leaves the impression that the poster looks at "us" like a stepping stone to some other objective.

Aviation as a feeder?
Yes, definitely - just make sure you are well aware of what door you pick before you walk through it.
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Last edited by Box; 02-12-2021 at 12:19.
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Old 02-12-2021, 21:17   #17
Joker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
Put on your reading boots fellas - this one's a doozie............


That being said - if you have a foundation in the Infantry, SF would be a fine path to follow. If you had a foundation in Aviation and still wanted to contribute to SOF - there is an Army Special Operations Aviation Command that would love to put you through their assessment and selection process when you are ready. They would DEMAND that you excel at performing in an Aviation role. One of their founders went on to become a four star general and USSOCOM Commander - so there is certainly a future in SOF Aviation if aviation is your thing.
He (Bryan "Doug" Brown) was also a SF troop in 7th Group when he applied for OCS. He wore that Green Beret when he was assigned to SOF units. For me, he was the best General Officer that I worked with, extremely smart.
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Old 02-13-2021, 06:54   #18
miclo18d
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I knew an enlisted SF guy that became a pilot, but not the other way around.
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"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." — Jeff Cooper
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Old 02-13-2021, 19:54   #19
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Gentlemen,


Hello! I appreciate your kind and wise advise that you have been generous enough to solicite to me.

So to address all of you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
.
Mostly: Yes! Some:
No. Sir, I am no longer pursuing WOCS as a subsequent of the pandemic. For everyone else here: I will continue to pursue aviation as an MOS post undergrad and I will either be 'shit-hot' at patrolling; or I won't be. I will train my ass off and will be sent to Ranger school to further ferment my skills as an infantry patrolling man or I wont. I will either be sent to the SFQC as an AV officer proficient at patrolling and I will pass: or I will not.

What I do know: Is that I a am a former infantry guy who knows how to patrol well and I believe in myself and my ability to instruct others on academic and practical skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongWire View Post
So let me get this straight........ You see that our issue currently in Afghanistan is that Uncle Sugar hasn't spent enough money? You believe that the ability to drop a payload of 500 tons is somehow going to change the course of the last 20yrs? Having the ability to drop them Tons of more weapons, ammo, widgets and whatever else (Tim Hortons anyone?) is somehow going to allow the Afghan Government to better defend/protect their peoples and gubmint?

During your stint in the Infantry did you deploy anywhere?

Do you know what Risk Aversion is?
No, Mr. Longwire, that is not the summary of my opinions. I have spent some time in Afghanistan, and I think the issue there is an applications one. Not a human one of blood nor treasure. I do not think that munitions nor material will address policy outcomes that have *yet* to propagate a positive outcome for the warfighter. However: I do think that if the US was able to vantage 'material' on a faster turnaround; and was able to do so with the precision that could be landed by modern spacecraft, he could have an even further "angelic" profile of intense and capable industry backing. I support the US mission in Afghanistan as an Afghan war vet. I think that US goals in the region have hope, and that there is SOME way to train the ANA and ANP to handle and serve the nation that they are aligned to.

To you other kind QP's who have been willing to shower me with some attention:

Thank you. It seems that against better guidance I am going to take my CIB and run headfirst into an aviation commission (TrapperFrank, Miclo18D, Joker, Redhawk12,ExSquid, and Box (I had to resist the urge to say 'Beavis'): Thank you so much for your insight. I have a much better understanding of both my personal and potential shortcomings as a result of your feedback.

I am going to be working part time in industry for the entire lead up and duration of potential time as a team leader.

I am extremely interested in becoming a NASA astronaut during the duration of my career as a human being.

However to address Box specifically: I am NOT interested in becoming a team leader or SF for the purposes of being 'on the way to something'.

Aaron Bank sold me on becoming SF. Period. I am a warfighter and thats how I want to fight war, the unconventional way. I want to become a team leader who influences the fight against our enemies both irregular and peer or otherwise. I wholeheartedly believe in the UW/FID mission and my ability to bring *Shit-hot* mission planning to it.

I appreciate ya'lls input and insight. I have a few semesters to go in undergrad before I commission and an even further stretch of time before I attempt something like an SFRE or even SFAS. I will not let an SF-trooper down by being unprepared. I will be *shit-hot* at patrolling and I will be damn fluent in the language(s) and history of any region I am assigned to.

Thanks PS.com for all the damn reading... From guys who knew people like Billy Waugh, Dick Meadows, Larry Thorne, or Changiz Lahidji. You guys represent such a capable population.. and I appreciate it.

Last edited by Space Cadet; 02-14-2021 at 13:05.
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:47   #20
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I hate to burst your bubble but if you commission as a AV officer and get qualified your branch probably will not release you to attend SFQC. That does not happen these days. AV branch spends a lot of money to train a pilot and wants to get their money’s worth on that investment.

Now if the AV officer is a turd and after many marginal evaluations they may let you go but SF will not be looking for that person.

Good luck which ever way you go.
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