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Old 04-20-2021, 17:25   #61
NurseTim
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But guilty of second degree murder, second degree manslaughter, AND third degree murder? For one death?

What are they going to do send him to jail, when he gets out, hang him, then draw an quarter him after he is dead?

Really! WTF? Am I so totally ignorant of the law?
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Old 04-20-2021, 17:38   #62
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Originally Posted by NurseTim View Post
But guilty of second degree murder, second degree manslaughter, AND third degree murder? For one death?

What are they going to do send him to jail, when he gets out, hang him, then draw an quarter him after he is dead?

Really! WTF? Am I so totally ignorant of the law?
He's "Epsteined" within a week
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Old 04-20-2021, 18:26   #63
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But guilty of second degree murder, second degree manslaughter, AND third degree murder? For one death?
Exactly. I was on a homicide jury in L.A. and we had a choice of 1st Degree Murder, 2nd Degree Murder, Manslaughter, or Not Guilty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota Statutes

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.
"a)" Might apply to Chauvin but it seems that Floyd's drug dealer should also be charged with "b)". But, still, how do you have all three?

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195
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Old 04-20-2021, 21:20   #64
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But guilty of second degree murder, second degree manslaughter, AND third degree murder? For one death?


Really! WTF? Am I so totally ignorant of the law?
My understanding is that in MN you can be convicted of multiple charges but only sentenced for 1 charge. The most serious conviction.



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Old 04-20-2021, 21:38   #65
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My understanding is that in MN you can be convicted of multiple charges but only sentenced for 1 charge. The most serious conviction.



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Then why vote on all three? In the case I was on, we quickly dismissed both murder counts then worked through the events on possible manslaughter. Eventually we found him not guilty due to self defense. If they found him guilty of 2nd Degree Murder, why go forward?
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Old 04-20-2021, 23:09   #66
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Then why vote on all three? In the case I was on, we quickly dismissed both murder counts then worked through the events on possible manslaughter. Eventually we found him not guilty due to self defense. If they found him guilty of 2nd Degree Murder, why do forward?
Officer Derick Chauvin (and the other three) didn’t commit a crime. He didn’t “murder” anyone, and he certainly shouldn’t be guilty of “manslaughter” for what happened that day. George Floyd died of a cardiac arrest with multiple underlying and precipitating problems all brought on by his own actions.

The prosecution failed to prove anything, especially intent, and the witnesses failed in so many ways I thought they were witnesses for the defense. The defense did a great job showing the holes in this case but no one apparently was listening.

I could say a lot about undue political influence but I think we know already that they can do and say anything they like and it’s okay.

There will be an appeal and this may even be overturned but, the jurors will be able to say they aren’t responsible for what happened. (One can hope that if they are ever accused of wrongdoing that they get a jury of their peers and witnesses willing to perjure themselves for expediency and social justice.)

I’m sickened and very disappointed in what happened today. I fear that what has happened will unleash a torrent of unrest and crime and many many innocent people will suffer as a result of elevating a criminal to saint like status and smearing all police as enemies of the people.
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:29   #67
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I am thinking that his defense will work on getting a re-trial at a later date once the political rhetoric dies down. There is no way he ways getting a fair trial without undue influence on those jurys. They were gonna convict because they were afraid of what would have happened to them if they found him not guilty.
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Old 04-21-2021, 06:46   #68
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ODNT, spot on. The consequences of this sham will be with all of us for some time. The pendulum is swinging. Waiting for the courts to be judicial make take a long time. This behavior is just starting. Yes I do understand that the court system is messed up prior to this. Now guided by the extremists.
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Old 04-21-2021, 12:50   #69
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Then why vote on all three? In the case I was on, we quickly dismissed both murder counts then worked through the events on possible manslaughter. Eventually we found him not guilty due to self defense. If they found him guilty of 2nd Degree Murder, why go forward?
Just going off memory (no linky) but I recall recently reading that the charging was structured similar to what LHC mentioned. For instance, to get to one you had to assess that he was guilty of another first, like a prerequisite in college. If you could get a checkbox on the manslaughter charge, which for this level is not INTENDING to cause death - but DID - then you can get to the murder charge(s) and assess those. The sentencing will just incorporate the worst of the 3. And then, prior to his untimely demise, appeals forevuh.

That quick a verdict after having heard, and received copies of, 14 pages of deliberation instructions tells me where the motive was for the verdicts. There is no question in my mind - no matter what they say later through mouthpieces - but that it was self-preservation. On their way to 2nd degree murder, based on having eval'd the manslaughter charge, they should've been able to determine that the lesser of the 2 murder charges didn't apply. But they just decided to vote a straight ticket. It is horsehockey. I don't care if this guy was the most arrogant jerkwad around, this was a tribal sacrifice. And we haven't seen the proceedings to address all the colleagues that could've stopped or mitigated what went down. The fugly is going to go on for awhile.
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Old 04-21-2021, 14:44   #70
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I think "victims" should be held 50% responsible for their actions. If you can make a decision to get high on multiple drugs, go out in public, try to buy a pack of chewing gum with a counterfeit $20.00 bill and resist arrest, you are responsible for what happens to you...
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Old 04-21-2021, 17:04   #71
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This “precedent” sets in motion that every police involved shooting (past, present and future) will result in a trial before the courts, not just of the legal process with 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty, and corrupt political hacks moonlighting as prosecutors, but the court of public opinion and media condemnation.

All human split second decisions will no longer be judged on the “reasonable officer” criteria of what any reasonable officer would have done or considered doing at that moment and without 20/20 hindsight after the fact. That standard was just thrown out the window by his Chief of Police and several detectives who haven’t arrested anyone lately.

We should all know what it is BLM and the radical left wants...they want absolutely no accountability for their actions, and right now they have been given a free pass to radically change generations of progress in policing. Just like the assault on the constitution, the BOR, and the military, the police in this country have been the who and the what that stands between freedom and anarchy.

God help the little people and minorities that will suffer a greater risk of mayhem than the affluent who can close their streets, hire armed guards and shop in predominantly safer neighborhoods than the poor.

Ask not what you think you want for you shall receive it in due time.
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Old 04-21-2021, 19:38   #72
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It is going to be a long Summer. I would like to see how Biden' s mouthpiece would expect the cops to react if she were to be assaulted by a knife wielding person of color white or black. I was always taught that actions had consequences, I guess that is no longer the case.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:47   #73
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I believe that Chauvin would not have been charged at all if he had checked Floyd’s vitals and noticed that he wasn’t breathing. That didn’t happen. That guy was dead for a few minutes before the Medevac unit showed up... not just unconscious, but not breathing, no pulse, I’m compliant because I’m dead dead.

All I saw about Chauvin was a guy who was overwhelmed by events and whose pentium was locked up. He had no idea that Floyd was dead. All he could do was wait and take direction from nowhere until the Med unit was on scene and he’d be done until the next call.

Is that murder? I don’t believe so, however it is gross negligence. Chauvin was made an example because it sets a precedent for change. It also puts all law enforcement going forward on notice. Being a cop isn’t easy, and it just got harder because an officer lacked the compassion to check on the welfare of his perp.
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Old 04-22-2021, 13:15   #74
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I suspect that the cost of Law Enforcement in Minneapolis as well as the cost of doing business and living there just went way up.

Actions have consequences.

TR
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Old 04-22-2021, 19:04   #75
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It is going to be a long Summer.
Last night the theory got tested when the usual crowd that rides the Greyhound between Chicago & Minneapolis decided to test the mettle of our little town because, right where the 'I' divides is their McD's rest/food stop on the other end of town. My take came directly off the scanner sitting in my commo bunker (and knowing the McD's manager since she was a little girl to get a debrief).

The bus pax - now empowered clearly with having won one against 'the Man' - decided that the best way to behave was to be extremely verbally abusive to the 2 young people trying to take their walk-up order and begin banging on anything resembling glass in the area. This got a local PD officer enroute in about 2 minutes, and a county deputy going by who heard the same traffic jumped off the exit to assist.

Fortunately they were corralled by their driver who basically said, "hey meatsticks, get on the frickin' bus now" and when the cruisers rolled in the bus was in motion rolling out.

But this is a thing that "just don't happen around here." It will not be the last. I'm frankly glad, as is the manager, that dine-in wasn't an option. People are going to have to hold their personal territory and that can get fugly.

Long hot summer indeed.
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