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Old 03-23-2018, 13:39   #1
JJ_BPK
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SOCOM adopts the 6.5mm CM

USSOCOM Adopts 6.5 CM

Last Spring, USSOCOM undertook a study of 6.5 family cartridges to determine a path forward for Precision Intermediate Caliber Ammunition. Over the last year, USASOC, the primary driver of this initiative, narrowed it down to 260 Remington and 6.5 Creemoor. Testing indicated that the two calibers performed very closely.

Last month, the command conducted a reliability test, using two incumbent weapons, currently in US service; the FN SCAR Heavy and KAC M110. Two weapons of each type were used, one was in 260 Remington and the other in 6.5 CM. What they found is that both weapons performed just as well and were just as reliable in either caliber.

As both cartridges were similarly accurate and reliable, the determining factor for selection of 6.5 CM would end up being trade space. The prevailing attitude is that there was more room with the 6.5 CM to further develop projectiles and loads.

I don’t expect a major announcement, or any fanfare with this decision. Instead, you’ll begin to see small movements toward configuring weapons to utilize this round.

At the USASOC Sniper Competition, there were several weapons in 6.5 CM. Yesterday, we gave a little tease on Instagram of a Knight’s Armament Co M110 in 6.5 CM.
link to article
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Old 03-23-2018, 20:37   #2
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I saw both .260 and 6.5 CM weapons at the Sniper Comp.

Either one would be great. The .260 can be made relatively easily from .308/7.62 NATO brass and is slightly faster.

TR
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Old 03-23-2018, 21:09   #3
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This will be for all....replacing all of the 5.56 platforms?
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Old 03-23-2018, 22:31   #4
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This will be for all....replacing all of the 5.56 platforms?
No, replacing 7.62mm NATO guns. .260 Rem is just a necked down .308 Winchester. 6.5 Creedmore is a modified .30 TC which again is a modified .308 Winchester case. So, bigger gun required.

CD

Last edited by Combat Diver; 03-23-2018 at 22:35.
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Old 03-23-2018, 22:33   #5
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No, replacing 7.62mm NATO guns
To bad.
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:03   #6
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HELP,,

Couple days ago the 5-sided outhouse picks the 6.5 CM as the Squad Designated Marksman Rifle round

NOW, they want to spent bazillions on 6,000 Heckler & Koch G28E(7.62 NATO) for the Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS) and/or Squad Designated Marksman Rifle rifle.

https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/...C=eb_180326.nl

Who's in charge??

confused VFOG
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:30   #7
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Nothing makes sense to me anymore.

For years - the M16A2 just wasn't getting it done - we needed.........
........shorter barrels

we NEED shorter barrels

So everyone got shorter barrels - then they realized that things were a little...
....off. Things were still just a little off and we needed to fix it - bad guys weren't dying quite the way we wanted them to die - 5.56 rounds from an M4 just weren't killing bad guys the right way.

we needed something a little extra....
....so SOF went out and bought some SPR's
....because we needed something with a little bit more barrel
....and then turned around and spent 12 jillion dollars buying 10 inch uppers

Then complained that something was still a bit off
...so we looked for something better - we needed a new gun

So we bought SCARS
...some of which were in 5.56
...but they had long AND short barrels
...but we didn't keep them because they sucked

We also bought 7.62 SCARS because it came with different barrels so we could shoot it at longer ranges
....but we still needed to spend a lot of money on a new 7.62 semi-auto sniper gun
...so we bought a bunch of older M14s and hot rodded them
...and we bought a bunch of guns that were nothing more than Gucci style M16A2 rifles chambered to fire 7.62
...but we still aren't quite there yet

Then we needed piston driven M4s because 10' inch gas guns and piston driven SCARS in 5.56 weren't quite the answer we wanted - it had to be an M4 platform with a piston.


.....and that horrible caliber choice we have been cursed with - oh Jesus - 5.56 wont kill any body unless it is in the hands of a child. An M4 is useless in a CQB situation - no adult sized target killing capability


Soooo...... as soon as we can field a new caliber, in a slightly different gun, we can start finding reasons why that one doesn't work either.
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Last edited by Box; 03-26-2018 at 06:34.
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:32   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK View Post
HELP,,

Couple days ago the 5-sided outhouse picks the 6.5 CM as the Squad Designated Marksman Rifle round

NOW, they want to spent bazillions on 6,000 Heckler & Koch G28E(7.62 NATO) for the Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS) and/or Squad Designated Marksman Rifle rifle.

https://www.military.com/kitup/2018/...C=eb_180326.nl

Who's in charge??

confused VFOG

And Remington declares bankruptcy.....
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:53   #9
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Until we get laser blasters, it's safe to say our ballistics/platform technology have practically peaked. It's like the automobile industry, every year a new model is released.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:45   #10
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I found some contract details.

44,500,000 / 3643 = 12,215 USD each, to include education & parts, yada yada yada...

PS: I wonder if the dolled up M14's will go to CMP


Quote:

Solicitation Number:
W15QKN-14-R-0065
Notice Type:
Award Notice
Contract Award Date:
March 31, 2016
Contract Award Number:
W15QKN-16-D-0051
Contract Award Dollar Amount:
Max Potential Contract Value: $44,500,000.00
Contract Line Item Number:
CLIN 0001-0029
Contractor Awarded Name:
Heckler & Koch Defense Inc.
Contractor Awarded DUNS:
134466999
Contractor Awarded Address:
19980 Highland Vista Dr Ste 190
Ashburn, Virginia 20147
United States
Synopsis:
Added: Apr 01, 2016 9:40 am

The U.S. Army Contracting Command, New Jersey, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ on behalf of the Project Manager Soldier Weapons awarded a single award Indefinite Delivery-Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contract with Firm Fixed Price (FFP) Delivery and Task Orders with two (2) options for a maximum total of 3,643 Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS) units.

The period of performance for the base ordering period will be Twenty-Four (24) months, during which time Production Qualification Testing/Operational Testing (PQT/OT) of 30 CSASS units will be conducted.

The minimum ordering obligation for this contract is 30 CSASS units to be used for PQT/OT.

Option one (1) will enable additional ordering periods and will include production, spare parts, depot support, First Article testing, and Instructor and Key Personnel Training (I&KPT).

Option two (II) is for the purchase of a technical data package and Government Purpose Rights.

.
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Old 03-26-2018, 17:46   #11
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M-14 to CMP ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK View Post
I found some contract details.

44,500,000 / 3643 = 12,215 USD each, to include education & parts, yada yada yada...

PS: I wonder if the dolled up M14's will go to CMP
ARE YOU KIDDING ME; After "THE GIANT STUDENT RALLY" on Sat.March 24,2018 The idea of A SALT weapons being offered for SALE by the Gov. will be out of the question. The ultra liberal left & the brain dead students think the NRA is the reason for massacre's and to put more high capacity mags with more assult weapons would be unthinkable.....Let's let the 13 to 19 year old students make decisions for the USA That sounds like a good idea. SCHUMER & PELOSI would vote for that...WE THE PEOPLE NEED A BIG CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY; WHILE WE STILL HAVE ONE. tom kelly
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Old 04-02-2018, 20:31   #12
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As much as I appreciate the benefits of 6.5CM over 7.62X51 in a full length barrel (≥20"), 7.62X51 offers better performance comparatively when using a 16" (1/10" twist) barrel like on the new CSASS.

x/S
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Old 04-02-2018, 21:18   #13
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Originally Posted by exsquid View Post
As much as I appreciate the benefits of 6.5CM over 7.62X51 in a full length barrel (≥20"), 7.62X51 offers better performance comparatively when using a 16" (1/10" twist) barrel like on the new CSASS.

x/S
What’s the source on that statement? (and) What do you mean by “performance”?
The 6.5CM high BC bullet is ballistically superior to .308. Barrel length only affects muzzle velocity not accuracy. Elevation is generally easy to predict by doping your bullets to your rifle. The windage is the difficulty and the 6.5 high BC bucks the wind similar to a 300WM. Another advantage is less recoil.
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Old 04-02-2018, 21:30   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
Nothing makes sense to me anymore.

For years - the M16A2 just wasn't getting it done - we needed.........
........shorter barrels

we NEED shorter barrels

So everyone got shorter barrels - then they realized that things were a little...
....off. Things were still just a little off and we needed to fix it - bad guys weren't dying quite the way we wanted them to die - 5.56 rounds from an M4 just weren't killing bad guys the right way.

we needed something a little extra....
....so SOF went out and bought some SPR's
....because we needed something with a little bit more barrel
....and then turned around and spent 12 jillion dollars buying 10 inch uppers

Then complained that something was still a bit off
...so we looked for something better - we needed a new gun

So we bought SCARS
...some of which were in 5.56
...but they had long AND short barrels
...but we didn't keep them because they sucked

We also bought 7.62 SCARS because it came with different barrels so we could shoot it at longer ranges
....but we still needed to spend a lot of money on a new 7.62 semi-auto sniper gun
...so we bought a bunch of older M14s and hot rodded them
...and we bought a bunch of guns that were nothing more than Gucci style M16A2 rifles chambered to fire 7.62
...but we still aren't quite there yet

Then we needed piston driven M4s because 10' inch gas guns and piston driven SCARS in 5.56 weren't quite the answer we wanted - it had to be an M4 platform with a piston.


.....and that horrible caliber choice we have been cursed with - oh Jesus - 5.56 wont kill any body unless it is in the hands of a child. An M4 is useless in a CQB situation - no adult sized target killing capability


Soooo...... as soon as we can field a new caliber, in a slightly different gun, we can start finding reasons why that one doesn't work either.
Box,
Looks like you thoroughly understand the history of the "Attempts" at finding the perfect rifle. You probably already know this, but... If the perfect rifle in the perfect caliber for all missions was designed and sold to the gov't, there would be no need to spend more money trying others... No more spending our seemingly endless tax dollars to design and sell yet another, not quite right rifle. They would hav etc find a new way to spend all that unspent money!!

IMHO
There is no "One size fits all" in rifles. The right fit is dependent on the application or intended use. But are multiple rifles for various missions or even the same mission practical for units? Why does life have to be so complicated?!
P52 Modulator is the right answer, just need to get it away from the creepy little Martian cartoon. . .

G2
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:34   #15
Box
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I have got to figure out how to get a job in the procurement and sales industry...
...the peanuts I make in the contact instructor realm just cant hold a candle to this level of corruption and profit.

Baby needs a new pair of shoes!!
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