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Old 10-15-2017, 13:58   #16
Old Dog New Trick
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Originally Posted by micakno View Post
That's really good information. As far as Delta goes, you say many of them are prior SF veterans. I've seen it said that 70% of Delta recruits come from the Ranger Regiment, is that true?
Even if I could say, I wouldn’t say. They have their own selection process which is very different than SFAS and they have their own training course. They select and train for a different mission.
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Old 10-15-2017, 14:46   #17
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A DA raid is a raid is a raid... and all of the units in this discussion have both trained expertise and practical experience at carrying them out. A few do it almost exclusively. Many SF units are as competent at it as anyone else. Some aren't. Depends upon current mission focus.

But, when discussing DA, the two major combat proficiency differences between SF and the others are:

1. Rangers, SEALs, & Delta conduct mostly US unilateral strikes. Unit pure (mostly or all Americans) with damn few (if any) attached indigenous fighters. SF flips that on its head. Most DA assaulters & support are non-Americans. Recruited, trained, advised, & led by a very small contingent of accompanying Green Berets.

When Delta or the Rangers hit a target ... they almost all belong to that unit. When SF hits the same kind of target with a similarly sized force... most are indigenous allies. Few of whom even speak English.

2. Unilateral assaults and raids for the others are driven by national/theater level targeting. Missions are tasked, and like trained hunting falcons, they swoop off to hit the chosen target. They are transient visitors. Guided hunters. In & Out. Across a potentially very wide geographic dispersal of target sets. This region today. That region tomorrow. Not staying focused on anywhere geographically specific for the really long term (years).

SF troops develop much of their own targeting... because they typically live full time in the area they hunt. They have a persistent presence (years) and operate along several simultaneous & parallel lines of operation. Developing their own longer term military/social/political objectives for that specific area or region. This broader & longer view of the battle space requires a more patient effort. They better understand the local players and the local chessboard. When SF units strike, they usually employ proxy forces. Allied troops or irregulars.

Delta swoops in with several dozen pipe hitters, lays waste, retrieves who or what they came to get... and leaves. Like a fast passing storm. An SF ODA, months into its mission to live among and forge alliances with the locals...stays like seasonal monsoon rains that deliver occasional lightning to the bad guys. They swoop in with a same sized (or larger force) comprised almost entirely of locals who speak the language and understand the culture. And, if desired, SF can generate more DA combat power against multiple locations. Because, out in the battle space, they directly control vastly more available combatants than those other outfits.

Try room clearing shoulder to shoulder with people who don't speak your language. Try creating a many thousand strong ground force of very competent, DA capable foreign fighters... then leading them on a systematic campaign of persistent combat operations... spread across an entire nation. Multiple operations conducted daily across a very wide region. For years. SF is a force multiplier for creating indigenous allied combat power. Several deployed SF battalions can field a Light Division worth of capable indig for continuous ops out on the battlefield. Indig fighters who get things done on offensive missions rather than man static checkpoints. The deployed SF geographical footprint is often much larger than that of other organizations...encompassing an entire country or region. Low density presence, but with Operational/Strategic impact out of all proportion to very limited presence of SF boots on the ground.

When ISIS ran riot across Iraq in 2014, and the American trained Iraqi Army folded like wet toilet paper, only a couple of Iraqi units stood, stayed in the fight, and kept the Baghdad regime from falling. Those were national level SOF units trained and organized by US Army Special Forces across the previous decade of counter-insurgency conflict. Well experienced & motivated Iraqi combat vets in continuous battlefield partnership with US Army Special Forces. Misused as Emergency Fire Brigades by the panicked government in Baghdad. After the Iraqi Divisions previously trained by conventional US advisors & academies melted away under fire. Those Iraqi SOF units are still leading all the major fights in Iraq today. That speaks volumes about SF combat proficiency.

We train foreign partnered troops to be as good as we are. At least that's the goal, given enough time. And in 2014 Iraq, those SF trained Iraqi forces proved to be pretty damn good. Because their previous SF trainers & battle partners were also pretty damn good. Which was fortunate for the nation of Iraq. I believe that without the presence of those Iraqi SOF units, ISIS would have occupied Baghdad and usurped the Iraqi government. Precipitating overt invasion by Iran and possible resultant direct conflict with US forces. Army SF long term efforts had a strategic payoff during the events of 2014.

SEALs? They do what they do (DA & Maritime) remarkably well. They integrate professionally with SF when it comes to doing the By, With, & Through thing as well. But it's not their forte.

Delta? They do what they do extremely well. They don't do indig or cover down on persistent presence. ST6? Same, same.

Rangers? Good at DA. But, at the core of things, the average Ranger is a 19-21 year old Soldier on his first enlistment. And there's only so much a young man can know (or absorb) at that age & 1-3 years of military experience.

SF? The average Green Beret is a guy already several tours into his career. He's older and already been around the block. He's already done the Ranger Regiment thing, or served as a combat leader in other units. He's a seasoned NCO, WO, or Officer... not a first term Private or Sailor. He excels at small unit ops & specialty skills, has cross cultural inclinations, speaks another language (to varying degrees), and is an out of the box thinker and doer. A gunfighter who can train other gunfighters. But for SF, DA is usually just a subset of the overarching UW mission. Occasionally it become the prime gig for certain units. An unofficial motto for SF is "Stay Flexible... Like Gumby's Dick on a Hot Afternoon". Ready to adopt new capabilities and skill sets to meet emergent circumstances.

SF combat proficiency? The historical record suggests plenty.

Last edited by Astronomy; 10-15-2017 at 23:47. Reason: typos & exanded comments
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Old 10-17-2017, 18:00   #18
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good material... new information always welcome, I like to get as informed as I can

Last edited by micakno; 10-17-2017 at 18:04.
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Old 10-17-2017, 18:03   #19
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Now go read more books, lots more books.
Hey guy, I'm here to learn, no need to mock me for it
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Old 10-17-2017, 18:17   #20
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Hey guy, I'm here to learn, no need to mock me for it
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Old 10-17-2017, 18:21   #21
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Hey guy, I'm here to learn, no need to mock me for it
After you pull that pin, remember which piece to drop which piece to throw.
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Old 10-17-2017, 19:27   #22
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Hey guy, I'm here to learn, no need to mock me for it
Chew-toy you should pay attention to who and how you address.

That is going to leave a mark.

We really, really need a face palm emoji!
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Old 10-17-2017, 20:29   #23
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Hey guy, I'm here to learn, no need to mock me for it
You aren't being mocked, but you are seriously lacking in SA (otherwise known as Situational Awareness).

I think you would be a good candidate for banning and being immortalized for generations to follow. Don't feel offended, doc. It would be for the greater good.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:36   #24
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I'm new and here to learn, please except my apology TM SGT may I clean the latrine or maybe sweep the hall
All fixed
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:01   #25
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Hey guy, I'm here to learn, no need to mock me for it
The older I get the more I realize I’ve developed a sub-zero tolerance for stupid. If you took the time to read our rules you’d realize that here you are the “guest” and this is our house and our rules.

If you truly desire to “learn” do what you’re told, otherwise:
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Old 10-23-2017, 18:18   #26
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I see that you have rules and have read them. I just found it a bit rude being told sardonically to go off and read some more books. Isn't that what this site is for, discussing and exchanging material about Special Forces?
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Old 10-23-2017, 18:51   #27
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I see that you have rules and have read them. I just found it a bit rude being told sardonically to go off and read some more books. Isn't that what this site is for, discussing and exchanging material about Special Forces?
Do what you were told or you will not last long.

No need to respond just comply.
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Old 10-23-2017, 19:50   #28
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I see that you have rules and have read them. I just found it a bit rude being told sardonically to go off and read some more books. Isn't that what this site is for, discussing and exchanging material about Special Forces?
I believe that the instructions given you were beneficial and within your abilities.

Learning is a lifetime pursuit of most SF guys I know. I would recommend reading the three stickies at the top of this forum before posting further.

As stated, you should comply, go into listening silence, or leave.

Your call.

TR
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:43   #29
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if you say so
not looking for another mess
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:35   #30
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I remember on my 2nd trip to A-Stan, we were attached to a Bn of 10th Motown and after about 3 days of skirmishes where we were pretty much the main effort, the Bn Cdr put us in the center of his perimeter and let us have a break.

At some point the BC decided to drop a 2000 lb JDAM on a suspected enemy position. We all listened intently to our CCTs radio as the mission was going in. The B52 came over and announced that the weapon was away and then seconds later, that they had lost guidance.

Everyone cringed...

Just like I’m doing here with this fuktard and his lack of situational awareness.

Hey Assclown!!! Everyone is giving you hint after hint after hint to shut your pie hole and not insult the Quiet Professionals on this board (hint look under their names, it says “Quiet Professional” not “asset” like under your own name; oh yeah, the first guy you insult: is the owner of the website, <<facepalm>>)

PS The JDAM hit just outside the Bn perimeter and gave one of his companies a serious jolt. That was a scary feeling!
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