Old 04-17-2017, 16:49   #1
The Reaper
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Bugout Loadout

I know we have touched on this in other threads, but things may have changed, or someone has a new opinion.

For this scenario, let’s say you have to hit the road (on foot), alone, in ten minutes. You need to be prepared to move at least 100 miles cross country to an alternate safe site / Bug Out Location you have access to. Hopefully, you have your Second Line (carriage) and Third Line (ruck) packed and ready to go, though we could discuss what we have in them as well. Your safe and ammo better be easily accessible. Assume that there will be two-and four-legged predators looking for you along the way. You will be by yourself for this movement, assume that others will meet you at the bug-out location and you will not encounter friendlies en route. Avoiding contact would be the best plan.

The primary issue for discussion here is what weapons you would select to bring with you.

Accessories, optics, slings, holsters, lights, spare mags, ammo, etc., should be listed as well, and their weight added to the total.

Remember that weapons and ammo are heavy. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain. Good slings and holsters make the load more manageable, but 100 pounds of lightweight gear still weighs 100 pounds. If we assume that your ruck should weigh no more than 45 pounds loaded, with water, and your second line gear (minus armor, weapons and ammo) weighs ten (plus any water carried on it), you probably would not want to add much more than 25 pounds of guns and ammo, in total, if you want to be able to move. Eighty pounds is a lot of weight for someone not accustomed to carrying it, and if you have not practiced with carrying the weight over distances, cross-country, you might want to give it a try before you decide to bring your Barrett M-82 and 1000 rounds.

What you have is what you have, minus water and food you might acquire along the way, no caches or friendlies to resupply from, though en route caches might be a good discussion for another thread.

Rifle: Lightweight Bravo Company M-4 variant, 5.56
Trijicon ACOG TA-31 and LaRue mount
AN/PVS-14
Surefire X300
VCAS sling
Seven loaded 30 round mags
Spare batteries
16 lbs.

Pistol: Glock 19, Gen 4, with night sights, 9x19
One loaded fifteen round mag and two 17 round mags with +2 base pads
Strong side holster (still searching for the perfect one)
Surefire pressure switch for X200
3.5 lbs.

Rimfire pistol: Ruger .22/45, Mk 3, .22 LR
SilencerCo Sparrow SS suppressor
Three ten-round mags of .22 LR Standard Velocity, loaded, and 100 spare rounds
Holster (still searching for the perfect one)
4 lbs.

Could you dispense with one of the weapons, like the long gun, a pistol, or maybe the rifle and a pistol, counting on speed for security? The answer might depend on what you have at your BOL for replacement firearms.

What is your firearms load out for this scenario?

TR
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:05   #2
frostfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
100 miles

Avoiding contact would be the best plan.

Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain.
Those are the criteria that stood out the most for me. So 7.62x39 PDW is out
In my thought process E&E with concealment is best. Not going to do any ambushes, shoot though wall/woods, etc.

Integrally suppressed UDP-9 (support local business ) with Holosun Microdot ACSS
Glock 19 9mm with cowitnessed Vortex Venom, AAC Ti Rant
Both platforms share same mags:
4 15 rds mag
2 17 rds mag with extension
2 34 rds mag
Spare 200 rds Gold Dot and 100 rds Remington Subsonic HT
A solid zero/range card (don't laugh) for both from 10 to 200 yards.

Or just a Glock 17 with this
https://gun.deals/product/caa-micro-...ipped-add-cart
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:52   #3
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I agree with Frostfire on E&E being the prominent consideration when shaping this load out.

In my area, moving by day is not a reasonable option and moving at night would dictate movement along field borders and unlit areas. This will drastically extend the time to cover the distance and force me to be as small as possible.

Time of departure is also a factor that influences what I carry.

Daylight:
I'm pulling the HK USP Compact .45 with Trijicon Tritim sights and 4, eight round magazines. OWB holster of my own design. (Complete kit, approximately 7 lbs)

Night:
Daylight load plus 5.56 M4 with Trijicon ACOG, TAG single point sling, and 6, thirty round magazines.
M4 disassembled and placed in inconspicuous backpack with mags. (Approximately 14 lbs) Total, 21lbs

Avoiding contact and being inconspicuous is paramount.
I can't outrun a radio and engaging a superiorly armed force would halt progress and most likely lead to being bracketed.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:02   #4
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Good stuff!

I've had to bug out(earthquake/tsunami false alarms as recently as 6 months ago).

But we have BoBs that get thrown in vehicles leaving in a packet in <10 minutes, usually 5 or so(we've had enough practice!)

On foot would anyone consider the following:

Fewer mags(maybe just 5) but more loose rounds packed away?

A takedown .22lr rifle instead of .22lr pistol?

A different optic, 2-7 maybe?

TI units are getting quite affordable.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:11   #5
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Another great topic. I don't have too many choices, but I'd have to say I'd bring my M4gery(stock) with irons and 6 loaded mags, M9 with 4 magazines riding on a chest rig, my 870 magnum with 50 rounds(5 riding a saddle), and a few extra rounds stored in the ruck. I'm unsure of the combined weight.

It really was a toss-up between bringing my .22 magnum Marlin bolt action VS my 870. The report from the .22 is too loud to use discreetly, so I figured I may as well bring the bear slayer along just in case with an assortment of rounds for both hunting and defense.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:36   #6
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Quote:
.......you might want to give it a try before you decide to bring your Barrett M-82 and 1000 rounds.

So no Toyota or Jeep based technicals allowed.....

I can't carry 80lbs so my gear would limited to only the essentials but will include a couple nalgene bottles of water and a few cliff bars. It would take a few to 5 days to cover the distance so taking an energy source is necessary as I can't count acquiring food enrout (maybe some squirrels and birds).

Rifle: I would take my AR M4gery and currently mounted Bushnell AR223 scope but limit magazines to no more than 4 or 5 plus batteries for the mounted Surefire 6P. 11-12lbs.

Handgun: Sig P226 with Streamlight TLR-1 HL and 3x18rd magazines in Safariland 6378. Shares batteries with 6P so same spares for both.

I would choose to skip a .22 and don't own any suppressors or NVG. I would carry NVG first is available.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:45   #7
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I'm old and slow, and the weight I could carry is a bit more limited due to health reasons. if I were to pick from the three weapons listed I would leave the G-19 and possibly add another 100 rounds of .22. The .22 can help feed you in most environments. Pigeons and tree rats at least in urban areas, more options in rural areas. I'd easily trade the G-19 for a life straw and a few protean bars.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:39   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldrotorhead View Post
I'm old and slow, and the weight I could carry is a bit more limited due to health reasons. if I were to pick from the three weapons listed I would leave the G-19 and possibly add another 100 rounds of .22. The .22 can help feed you in most environments. Pigeons and tree rats at least in urban areas, more options in rural areas. I'd easily trade the G-19 for a life straw and a few protean bars.
As I also fall(no pun) into the FOG category..

If I'm walking,, my destination better be a fully stock arms room & cache..

I would hump a Ruger Charger (SBR'd) and Glock 19, w/cans. Three hi-cap mags each, plus box ammo.

Example (not mine, I would use a 4x fixed scope and interchangeable Trijicon RMR type)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rugercharger.jpg (185.7 KB, 63 views)
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:48   #9
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My new A/O in ID is rugged country with mountains, rivers, lakes and reservoirs, full of fish and game, but also black bears, wolves and grizzlies. Living in grizzly country is new to me so I'm still tailoring out a new load out plan for this region. As for my initial thought for firearms, long range shots with optics can be limited in heavy timber (I learned that in CO) so for a rifle I'm thinking my Marlin 45-70 lever gun with iron sights. It's relatively compact and good for all critters, 2 and 4-legged, small and grizzly-sized, for medium to close range.

Sidearms: Either HK USP .45 or Springfield XD .460 Rowland and a suppressed .22.
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:46   #10
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Thanks TR for the thread. It's interesting to re-think this & see what brain cells might've shifted since the last time I gave this some thought. (Also this FOG is not hauling as much either but, forgetting weapons, the thought of needing to make deliberate movement in an E&E scenario drives quite a bit.)

A "long" gun for me would actually be a mutt AK 7.62 I have that I've had for quite awhile. Some will decry it but I've actually moved in the woods alot with this thing to the point that it's an old friend. Incredibly convenient with its DDR folding stock and a T1 clone atop its railed gas tube, birdcage flash suppressor & a collection of proven mags. The dot is small enough to do adequate honest work from field positions out to 250-300; plenty for my environs. Not for everyone but it's like a favorite pair of jeans at this point.

My G19 would go for the same "old friend' reason; 15+1 and a couple of spare G17 mags with the OEM +2 baseplate (they're not all created equal). It gets carried in a modified M7-pattern (add cross-strap, ditch belt loop) leather rig made sometime way back by El Paso Saddlery specific to that frame. It's NOT a high-speed cool pick to the gun but it comes to hand easily, carries wonderfully and, no matter what I have to drop, it's ON me.

The part I've been mulling about is simply stashing my Ruger Mk.II w/couple spare mags & some spare change rounds in the ruck, but have lately been thinking hard about swapping it & a safe queen for the Mk.III 22/45 and suppressing that. In my neck of the woods a person can feed themselves pretty good with a .22 if needed & a suppressed version is a useful hammer as well. Headed now to the search engine; someone's surely written the good/bad/ugly RE suppressors for Mk.III's.

Thanks again.
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Old 04-18-2017, 12:33   #11
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Goal is to reach safe site
100 miles cross country - Bug Out Location you have access to - alone - Avoiding contact would be the best plan.

GR1 Ruck with hydration system 2lbs 9 oz
3 qts water 6 lbs
Mil spec Compass 5 oz
Sea to Summit nylon poncho 8 oz
Mil poncho liner 1 lbs 4oz
30 Gator chews 30g @=900= 1 lbs 9 oz
1 blt wolf urine 12 oz
1 blt Shunk Spray 12 oz
Glock 21/14 rounds 2 lbs 5 oz
Vanguard 8x22 Binos 11.oz

Total weight 15 lbs 2 oz
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Old 04-18-2017, 13:44   #12
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Yes, thank you for another scenario.
I'd take a light weight chest rig underneath clothing for my AR, Glock 17 w/ extra mags, and perhaps the BB/pellet gun. An IR or Thermal monocular would be handy to sort out whats ahead as I'm assuming others would be bugging out in an exodus out of this city, so on foot I would be traveling at night.

I would assume the attire of the homeless at least until I got out of the city as they travel with impunity especially at night.
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Old 04-18-2017, 16:57   #13
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IRT some of the posts thus far.

I love my .45, but I have come to the conclusion that you can get 90% of the performance and twice the round count for half the weight from the 9x19. Blasphemy, sorry!

Stealth would be key in this trip, and you have to sleep sometime. I would try laying up during the day and moving near roads (but not urban areas) at night. 100 miles in most cases will take you through at least one significant elevation change or water crossing. Get a map, compass and protractor, and think / plan ahead.

Night vision would be crucial, especially moving at night. Don’t forget the spare batteries.

Same for suppressors, especially for subsonic rounds, like .22 LR standard velocity or match loads. Not a big fan of the claimed .22 subsonic, they tend to be dirty and inaccurate. You can hunt small game quietly (or suppress noisemakers) without a suppressor by using a .22 rifle and some CB Longs. In 9x19, the 147 gr. subsonic JHP is probably the way to go if you want to run it through a suppressor. The 5.56 is going to be loud, no matter what you hang on it to reduce it's bark. The suppressor will cut the sound considerably, enable you to hear where and what other weapons are being fired, eliminate its muzzle flash, and make it much more difficult to tell what direction the rounds are coming from.

Having said that, anyone who shot my dog would be on a fast track to perdition and I would expend considerable resources to find and repay them.

Not a fan of the .22 Magnums due to ammo cost and blast, and the performance is not what most people think it will do, especially from a pistol.

There is little point in carrying boxed 5.56, as the issued aluminum mags are light enough that they barely weigh more than the boxes, and means you can swap mags and get back to shooting in seconds. No reason to carry a lot of pistol mags, if they are higher capacity, one for the weapon and two spares would seem to be enough to cover lost mags and allow you to stay in the fight. AK mags are heavy, empty or loaded and would be an exception to carrying loaded and not in strippers.

The only real issues I have with magnifying optics is the need to be able to get down to 1x for close-up engagements, and the very poor battery life with the illumination switched on, so limited utility at night. I do like the value of the Primary Arms 1-6x and 1-8x Gen 3s.

We have discussed BoB loads before, here I think you are going to have to count on mostly water and water purification, lightweight food, weather dependent shelter and clothing, first aid, and spare socks. Might be a good idea to empty the BoB seasonally (couple of times per year to check expirations and weather appropriate loadout).

A set of small binos would be a worthy addition, though you can use your magnifying optic for generally the same things.

Not a big fan of adding a shotgun, too much weight, limited utility and range, very heavy ammo. Ten rounds equals a pound, so 50 rounds equals five pounds of pain, pushing your gun and ammo load with two long guns to around 32 pounds. Not much room for anything else.

I concur with the possibility of running this with just a .22 LR pistol or rifle, but you do open yourself up to some gaps.

The AK in 7.62x39 was a temptation to me as well, but for a short duration mission and limited weight, I did not think it would make the cut. I considered the .300 Blackout for its ability to provide near .30-30 and 7.62x39 ballistics for less weight and better accuracy, AR ergonomics, and the ability to switch back and forth with super- and subsonic rounds by changing mags. For a long term foot movement, particularly in an area with big game, close engagement ranges, or large numbers of hostiles.

You do not have to select from my weapons choices, feel free to choose your own.

Just my .02, YMMV.

Let’s keep this going.

TR
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Old 04-18-2017, 18:13   #14
Badger52
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Great point on the binos. I have some great glass, some really good glass, and some little 8x pocket jobs. These last or a 6x MONocular actually end up being at hand a lot.
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Old 04-18-2017, 19:13   #15
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Quote:
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some little 8x pocket jobs. These last or a 6x MONocular actually end up being at hand a lot.
Concur.
I have used this a lot and can vouch for its practical utility
http://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-o...g-reticle.html

Anyway, back to firearms...
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