Old 02-28-2006, 16:39   #16
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsanarmything
I was taking correspondance courses online, and I came upon a Virtual Course that read "How to set up an Observation Post". Afterwards I took another small course on Land Navigation, and the thought came to me, Why not try to build a Virtual Land Navigation Course? After doing a few searches on here, I didnt see anything about the topic.

What does everyone think?
I don't think it would be much like the real thing, but if you plan to game your way through the Q Course, that is an option.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2006, 18:22   #17
QRQ 30
Quiet Professional
 
QRQ 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
Most, all training, navigation we did was by compass. You must learn to keep the compass perfectly aligned with your body. You don't need a console, in fact we didn;t have them in Germany. One arm is pointed straight to the frone and the forearm with the wrist compass is held at a ninety degree angle. I have had sucess just cupping the compass in my hands and keeping my shoulders square.
Currents can be a problem. We allowed one "porpoise" to surface very briefly like a porpoise to assess where you are heading. You then crab, or head an equal distance the opposite side of the target.

When the tide is right you could hold a heading towards the NIKE site at Flemming Key and be swept right around the island without realizing it. It is a compromise. Stronger swimming reduces the effects of current but increases air-consumption.

Like a pilot, you have to trust your instruments since many times thats all you'll see. Interestingly I learned to adapt land navigation from my experience underwater rather than vice versa.

BTW: I probably didn't answer RL's question as I am more military oriented. Sdiver gave good points for rec. diving. In rec diving I wasn't normally as concerned with distances as just returning to a given point, be it a new spot, one I had dived before or just returning to a starting point. As with strolling through the woods, total awareness of your surroundings is important..
__________________
Whale

Pain and suffering are inevitable,
misery is optional.

http://tadahling.com/memoriesofaspecialforcessoldier/

Last edited by QRQ 30; 02-28-2006 at 18:32.
QRQ 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2006, 18:50   #18
Ambush Master
Quiet Professional
 
Ambush Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
Posts: 4,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsanarmything
I was taking correspondance courses online, and I came upon a Virtual Course that read "How to set up an Observation Post". Afterwards I took another small course on Land Navigation, and the thought came to me, Why not try to build a Virtual Land Navigation Course? After doing a few searches on here, I didnt see anything about the topic.

What does everyone think?
There is NO WAY that a Computer Based "Virtual" Land Nav Game could do the DM Justice!!!
__________________
Martin sends.
Ambush Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2006, 19:47   #19
QRQ 30
Quiet Professional
 
QRQ 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambush Master
There is NO WAY that a Computer Based "Virtual" Land Nav Game could do the DM Justice!!!
Where's the wait a minute vines, quick sand, and swamps in McColl and the black palm in Panama. Pooters miss all of the fun!!
__________________
Whale

Pain and suffering are inevitable,
misery is optional.

http://tadahling.com/memoriesofaspecialforcessoldier/

Last edited by QRQ 30; 02-28-2006 at 20:02.
QRQ 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 08:29   #20
Aoresteen
Quiet Professional
 
Aoresteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 273
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSB


And now the bonus question:
What's the correct name for the little plastic thingies at the end of boot laces that keep the end from getting frazzled?

Aglet.

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/inde...?date=19980616
__________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
W1AJO
De Oppresso Liber
Aoresteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:04   #21
x SF med
Quiet Professional
 
x SF med's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
Just fell into this thread - glad to see it resurrected.

Land Nav is an art as much as it is a science, each person has their own techniques - the point is getting to your destination, on time. the only real trick I can think of to help the FNGs is practice, practice, practice. go orienteering, go wandering in the worst areas you can think of, get out on the land nav courses - that's the only way you're going to get good.
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"

Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb

Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
x SF med is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:18   #22
Team Sergeant
Quiet Professional
 
Team Sergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by x_sf_med
Land Nav is an art as much as it is a science,
When you can look at a military or topo map and "see" the terrain in three dimensions in your head that's called "terrain association". (That's when land nav becomes an artform. IMO) Very important in a temperate environment. Not so important in a desert, on a large body of water or in a very thick jungle.

The best way (I've found) to nav in the dense jungle is pace count and dead reckoning. All the nav skills are important.
__________________
"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
Team Sergeant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:23   #23
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 927
My Imput on Land Nav what a good subject

Keep compass away from metal even your gear and weapon can throw it off 20 deg or so.

BACK STOPS BACK STOPS BACK STOPS if you know you shouldent be crossing a river that's a good indication you have went to far.

Ive never been lost but I have been very confused for a few hours lol

Dont Walk in white out conditions stop and wait for it to quit snowing (Mountain Team's)

Stop Look Listen most the time you can hear traffic on roads or other indications to where you are.

The path of least resistance will make you 2 hours late.
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.”

"Robert A. Heinlein"
7624U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:30   #24
x SF med
Quiet Professional
 
x SF med's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
TS-
I fully agree, Land Nav is the money ticket - lensatic and a map are 2 items that will save your ass and your Team's. GPS is nice, but I think that the reliance on all the razzle-dazzle gear isn't going to do much good if you have to carry an extra ruck for batteries.

As to being able to terrain associate - again, practice - orient yourself in an unfamiliar area, look at the map, gauge the distances, see the real stuff in front of you, see how it's portayed on the map. Night Land Nav is dead reckoning, you need to hold a course, know your pace for the terrain, feel the differences, count streams, draws, hills.... Land Nav has always been one of my favorite non-shooting skills, I guess because it can be difficult until it becomes second nature. Plus it can give you a chance to relax at the Q - if you're good, accurate and quick - you can take a nap until the slowpokes get in - as long as there's not the one dumbass that gets complertely lost, the flare goes up and you have to be part of the skirmish line looking for his non-navigating ass.....

762-
Confused, or the map was misoriented due to circumstances beyond your control. Or, the map was old and the declination was incorrect. It could always have been the previous point's fault too - that non navigating SOB - you just had to fix it - he must have come from Ranger Bat.
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"

Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb

Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR

Last edited by x SF med; 08-29-2006 at 09:34.
x SF med is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:53   #25
BMT (RIP)
Quiet Professional
 
BMT (RIP)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
Pace Count

Anyone that went on the ole Branch FTX in the '60's will remember the 1936 CGS we were issued.
Each team was suspose to up date the map as they moved thru Pisgah Nat'l Forest. Some did some didn't.
Ask QRQ 30 about the maps of Laos he was issued. They were old French maps that hadn't been up dated since Christ was a Cpl.

BMT
__________________
Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
BMT (RIP) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:56   #26
Jack Moroney (RIP)
Quiet Professional
 
Jack Moroney (RIP)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,093
If you can't navigate you can't lead.
__________________
Wenn einer von uns fallen sollt, der Andere steht für zwei.
Jack Moroney (RIP) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:00   #27
x SF med
Quiet Professional
 
x SF med's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Moroney
If you can't navigate you can't lead.
Oh, I see a Ranger joke in hiding here. [restrain yourself].

COL Jack, if you can't navigate, you tend to be lost in the woods, you might be in the lead, but you go around in circles.
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"

Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb

Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
x SF med is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:01   #28
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by x_sf_med
TS-


762-
Confused, or the map was misoriented due to circumstances beyond your control. Or, the map was old and the declination was incorrect. It could always have been the previous point's fault too - that non navigating SOB - you just had to fix it - he must have come from Ranger Bat.
Non navigating SOB More like Dont listen to reason and hold up till dawn when we can see something, I got talked into driving on and walking all night lol come to find out if we would have stoped where I wanted to stop we would have just have to walk 1.2k up stream to our G-camp in Robin Sage.

Moral of the story if the mission is done and your walking home and your out of danger why not hold up in some brush till you have some light.
dont punish yourself when its pitch black out and the woods are thick as hell, walking around breaking every branch and maybe stumbleing into a enemy camp is always a consideration.
I would be interested in hearing any SOG guys storyes about land nav in the jungle. and did you always do it at night or was that risky cause the CONG traveled the paths at night ?
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.”

"Robert A. Heinlein"

Last edited by 7624U; 08-29-2006 at 10:12.
7624U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:22   #29
BMT (RIP)
Quiet Professional
 
BMT (RIP)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
Pace Count

Story Time!!! Story is to make a point on what Col. Jack posted.

"A" Co. 13th Arm'd Inf. Bn. at Graf 1958. Most of the Plt Ldr's were E-7's or old E-6's.
"A" Co. was getting ready for night movement to contact. CO told one of the enlisted Pl's to lead. A new LT ask if he could lead as he needed the practice.
After beating around the bush and running out of reason's not to let the LT lead, he gave in.

Off we went 17 APC's with a new LT in the lead. I was a 4.2" FO attached to the Co. We went by a rock formation and things looked good. Next thing you know we passed the same rocks again, after passing the same rock formation 6 times the CO stopped the Co. and ask LT. Brown if he knew his location. All the LT could say was "Sir there sure are a bunch of rock formations on this route that look the same."


BMT
__________________
Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
BMT (RIP) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:40   #30
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 927
Think i have one to top that lol

Iraq mission at 0'dark:30
Team is conducting search of local village with help of IraqI army
Im maning 50.cal and in good position to know where everyone is at so i can get to them

Terrain model was made for this village with roads briefed with colors and Houses numbered from North to South so if a team member should get in trouble all he has to say is road blue house 4 for instance and we know where that is at.

Im sitting there pulling security and ask anyone if they want my gun truck to pull closer to thier location, The village is half clear by this time.
I get a reply roger from one of my team mates (name and rank withheld)
Ok what is your location so I can move to it. Pause......................

Reply (Im in a House)
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.”

"Robert A. Heinlein"

Last edited by 7624U; 08-29-2006 at 10:46.
7624U is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SF Fieldcraft Team Sergeant Special Forces Fieldcraft 81 02-14-2011 12:26
Rucking Advice The Reaper Special Forces Assessment & Selection 0 01-23-2004 20:52



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:29.



Copyright 2004-2019 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies