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Old 04-25-2009, 23:40   #1
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Parrot's Beak/1970

I feel like I'm going way out on a limb on this, but I will take my shot. While prowling a gun show recently I happened to see a guy with a hat with Soc Trang Tigers on it. Now I can spot a fake Vietnam helicopter guy in two minutes or less, but this fellow was a Crew Chief with the 121st AHC in 1970, and also flew with some other shady characters out of Vung Tau (my description, not his). Crew Chiefs hold a very special place in my heart. When you fire that Lycoming up and pull pitch they are back there behind the M-60 and are now a...door gunner, with a vested interest in the performance of their previous duties. After a while he started talking about some missions he flew in the scenic terrain of what was commonly referred to as the Parrot's Beak (exact location unknown). I am familiar with the exploits of the Tigers, being a former Crusader and Spartan myself, and having flown the AO, but I am not familiar with the particular mission of which he spoke. He seemed somewhat haunted about the whole thing, like waking up from a deep sleep.

Maybe I missed this one on this guy, but I had to check with the Professionals to see if any one around that area had heard of Sand Man. If you know, you know. If it's a figment of somebody's imagination I'll stick a sock in it. It only seems reasonable that agent orange wasn't the only thing dispensed from an agricultural type rig.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:15   #2
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Sand Man

Did a quick goggle (not deep) search and didn't see anything on it.

Marines had a Sand Man in 67/68 that was changed to YUMA.

I'm just sitting here thinking logistics, dose, time, area, vegitation, reliability and why?

Never say Never - it might have been tried once with mixed results but the story should have come out by now.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:38   #3
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Sand Man

He said pretty much everybody on the ground got some. With close quarter fighting it is hard to discriminate with that kind of equipment. Good guys were extracted quietly, and some bad guys never woke up. I guess it was better than 500 pounders for everybody. I am going to meet with my new buddy in a more conducive environment this week to learn more. I'd like to know if the helicopter crew had any protection.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:57   #4
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Does this make any sense to you?

There was a 'Sandman' around a decade ago - but it was to stay awake.

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Old 04-30-2009, 20:20   #5
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Parrot's beak

Parrot's beat was a region of shared borders of South Vietman, Laos, and Cambodia about 33miles west of Siagon. Agents used in that area were Orange, Pink, Blue Purple and white all containing different amouts of Dioxin, Cacodylic Aid, amd Picloram. And some other stuff. Blitzzz
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:57   #6
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I operated in the Parrot's Beak area between 1967 and 1969. I was exposed to Agent Orange but not , as far as I know, to any other agents.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:34   #7
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Parrot's Beak..........

SF Firebase was located 20 miles above Moc Hoa and less than a mile from the Cambodian border. Capt. John P. Mcafee was the Team Leader. Some names in the team are Sgt. Randolph Subervich, Spc. Thompson, 2nd. Lt. Jonathan Powell, and a Sgt. nicknamed "Shotgun"............I think, but am not sure the ODA was 134.......Anybody remember these guys?

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Old 05-01-2009, 14:22   #8
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What year are you talking about? In 1967-1969 the ODA # should have been a 3 (third corps) or a 4 (iv corps). Could this have been a 1st SFGA Group team?
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Old 05-01-2009, 20:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzzz View Post
... Agents used in that area were Orange, Pink, Blue Purple and white all containing different amouts of Dioxin, Cacodylic Aid, amd Picloram. And some other stuff. Blitzzz
This would not have been a defoliant. It was used to induce a deep, temporary sleep. I guess the theory was if everybody is asleep the battle is over, and the good guys can be extracted. If no one has ever heard of it then, please just forget I even brought it up. I was intentionally being vague in my description in case it might still be classified, but what the hell, no one would discuss in off line either if it were.
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Old 05-02-2009, 00:49   #10
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Re: Post

Sorry. This sounds like Tailwind BS.
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:01   #11
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Originally Posted by greenberetTFS View Post
SF Firebase was located 20 miles above Moc Hoa and less than a mile from the Cambodian border. Capt. John P. Mcafee was the Team Leader. Some names in the team are Sgt. Randolph Subervich, Spc. Thompson, 2nd. Lt. Jonathan Powell, and a Sgt. nicknamed "Shotgun"............I think, but am not sure the ODA was 134.......Anybody remember these guys?

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According to Steve Sherman, McAfee was Det Co of A-414 from 1 Jun 70 to 15 Dec 70. As a 1LT, he was the CAPO there from 18 Apr 69 to 1 Jun 70. None of the others you named are listed on A-414.

http://www.specialforcesbooks.com/C4.htm
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:08   #12
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Quote:
Sorry. This sounds like Tailwind BS.
Concur.

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Old 05-02-2009, 11:24   #13
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Quote:
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According to Steve Sherman, McAfee was Det Co of A-414 from 1 Jun 70 to 15 Dec 70. As a 1LT, he was the CAPO there from 18 Apr 69 to 1 Jun 70. None of the others you named are listed on A-414.

http://www.specialforcesbooks.com/C4.htm
I tried to PM you but I couldn't do it so I'll post my source. It's "Slow walk in a sad rain". It's author is Capt. John P. Mcafree. He claims it's a "true story" about his service time at the firebase he commanded........I don't remember him saying that the names of his team in the book were fictitious.......... I no longer have the book, but requested the guy that has it check that out.

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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver

SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney

SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII

Last edited by greenberetTFS; 05-02-2009 at 11:28.
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Old 05-03-2009, 00:54   #14
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WTF is "SF Firebase?"

I was in an "A Camp" in that AO from Aug 68-March 70.

They dropped everything but snowballs all over the place.
Thet even dropped big drums of CS crystals along the border that came to life when you walked thru the area. It affected the little guys a lot more than us, but it definately kept people out of the area.

"ODA" is a term not used in those days. We were "A Detachments," or "A Teams."

Never heard of sleeping gas-think that was in "The Wizard of OZ"
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Old 05-03-2009, 06:43   #15
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Sleeping agents are very hard to dose properly, as any anesthesiologist will tell you.

At a certain point, some people will still be awake while others are nearing death.

Trying to do this outside would be even more difficult, as some areas would have concentrated gas and others, barely any.

The Russians found this out at ther Moscow Theater when they tried to knock out the terrorists.

IIRC, some terrorists were still awake and some hostages had been killed.

Sounds like BS to me. I would think it would be just as easy to kill the enemy, as they will surely know that something went down, either way.

TR
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