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Old 05-08-2008, 05:30   #61
lksteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete S View Post
I have never used one. Looks like a useful piece of gear though.
No need in having a sextant without an ephemeris...you might as well take a GPS...
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:45   #62
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The companionship issue should not to be trifled with. a year or two of limited human contact is a big hurdle.

Entertainment, nights will be long, winter will be longer how are you going to spend 12 hours a day for 3 months under the snow? I can tell you that after you reread Atlas Shrugged a few times you will long for any other book.

Salt and potassium, I have no idea how much you will need for 2 years but not having the minimum is a mission ender. I am not sure I want to be in Iowa counting on trade to get me salt.

I really want to pack a Delta, could I find a skinny one and use him as my total weight allowance? So to review my list so far, 2 plasma rifles and a Delta.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:15   #63
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The companionship issue should not to be trifled with. a year or two of limited human contact is a big hurdle.
I would get a vasectomy and find a girlfriend! Plus it really wouldn't be cheating, technically speaking the relationship would have occurred before my wife and I were together.

I'm soooo glad my better half doesn't read PS.com
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:28   #64
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I really want to pack a Delta, could I find a skinny one and use him as my total weight allowance? So to review my list so far, 2 plasma rifles and a Delta.
My first thought was to pack a Glock 22 with 200 rounds, and the rest in 1/2 oz. gold coins. Then hire 100 Hessian mercenaries for a year (as nearly as I can tell, the conversion rate to pounds sterling versus annual pay for the mercs would work out well, and still leave a margin for error.) The gold would be worth about 6,500 pounds sterling, and the mercs got about 20 pounds per year and equipped themselves.

But I fear that would violate the ground rules rather badly; and the timeline would never be the same.

(I wonder if I could get away with hiring a guide, a personal chef, and a valet? Or would that be completely over the top?) (Yes, I'm joking).
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:18   #65
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I'm holding out for the flameproof, micro-climate, Arcturan spider silk underwear and the chameleon combat suit with the woven in photovoltaics, HUD, PDA, Navsys, and personal entertainment accessories.
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Old 05-08-2008, 13:18   #66
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Gents, I am seeing some decent lists here, with a few omissions or overkill.

I am learning a lot from this discussion as well.

Those planning on companionship or pack mules, hold off, we will eventually come to those alternatives. Not sure that many would give up half of the winnings just to have someone to argue with. Maybe if it was Gordon Smith, it might be worth it.

Don’t get too far down in the weeds about time travel protocols till you are in the test phase of the actual machine. That is a topic for discussion elsewhere.

Gold was not worth $1000 per ounce back then. Barter items would probably be worth more. Consider small sharps, needles, fishhooks, blades, mirrors, micro-lights, BIC lighters, small pens (or refills), ferrocerium rods, etc.

No dog this trip, unless you find one en route. If he can forage for himself, this would be a good idea.

Anyone who plans on sleeping in nothing but spare clothes in a poncho and liner will probably freeze to death.

Those who think 200 rounds of .308 and 50 rounds of .45 ACP weigh 5 pounds better get some ammo, a scale, and a clue.

Boots that last for a 3,000 mile trek rank right up there with magic beans.

I like the concept of trying to use the native tribes to assist you in your journey, but even if you are the baddest man on the planet, you are going to be going to sleep sometime, and since you are solo in this, you are vulnerable to the thieves, the jealous, those with motivations to eliminate you, etc. I might give it a few days in a native camp, but following that, I want to be hitting the trail again.

Routes along the Gulf Coast are going to put you in a lot of river crossings and swampy areas. Not somewhere you are going to make a lot of quick movement.

Those planning on taking more time than necessary to see the sights are increasing your risk factor. If you stay out in the woods for 1,000 days, you are taking a significantly higher risk of being killed or injured than someone who makes the trip in 300 days. The odds of disease, injury, or accident are high. Note that if we were running West Coast to East, it might make some sense, since there are cities to live somewhat better than on the move, living out of your ruck, and you could rent a room, buy your meals, etc. till the exfil. Not happening in California in 1700.

1700 is before percussion caps are invented. State of the art is flintlock.

I am not promoting a centerfire pistol as one of your weapons, but note that .45 ammo is very heavy, almost twice as heavy as 9x19. Grab a 50 round box next time you are in the store and see for yourself, and with JHPs, the 9mm is not that bad a performer. What kind of firefight do you envision that you can shoot up 10 mags (or 70 rounds) without having time to reload, before being overcome yourself? You should be worried about hostile natives, not zombies.

The 20 foot machete should be fun to deploy. If you have one, could you post a picture?

Due to the multitude of threats, I would put the odds of completing this challenge at no better than even, with years of SF training and a good prep. No better than that due to the unknown hazards, and the ever present Murphy waiting to twist your ankle, give you a bad mushroom, give you a snakebite, catch a fever, strand you in the mountains during winter, in the desert during an extended drought, lose your ruck in the river, drown you, hit you with lightning, have you hit by a swarm of bees, give you food poisoning, crypto, giardia, etc. You are on your own on this and there is no partner, team, 911, or rescue chopper coming to get you. The Donner Party of 86, fully equipped for 1846 with wagons and departed the much shorter distance from Springfield, Illinois, starved and 39 died in the mountains of California when they missed their crossing window by a few days in October, and decided to lay up.

I do like the idea of working with the locals, rather than seeing them all as a threat. Probably a good analysis of whether you have SF potential or not by the answer to that question.

As far as the sextant goes, the reason that ships use it is that there are relatively few landmarks on the ocean, but there are many underwater hazards near land. Explorers would use it because they did not have a map. With a map, compass, and identifiable terrain features, moving on foot, I see no need for it.

As previously noted, you are in your prime, at whatever age you wish to be when this offer is made.

If hiring mercenaries were permitted, and the word “solo” prohibits this, I would wager that if you had your Glock and the gold with 100 armed mercs, after a few nights, you would, at best, have neither, or at worst, be dead. You might do some reading on the mutinies and political struggles among the early explorers, and their crews.

I am with you Peregrino. Too bad the conditions don't allow for a jump forward before jumping back. I am holding out for the flying suit so I do not have to get my boots dirty.

Hope this helps clarify and shed some light on the scenario and some of the choices thus far. Not throwing darts at anyone's suggestions, just offering my opinion.

TR
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Old 05-08-2008, 15:36   #67
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TR - If you like survival situation thought experiments I think you would get a real kick out of The Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War. In the tradition of Vonnegut, they're a combination of dark comedy, political satire, and some very interesting playful analysis.

The basic premise is that there is a disease that turns people into flesh eating zombies and the books track the spread of the disease, society's failure to properly confront it, the panic that ensues, the eventual adaptations that allow humanity to survive, and the way human culture is irrevocably changed as a result.

It sounds cheezy but its a very smart, detailed, entertaining thought experiment.
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Old 05-08-2008, 18:37   #68
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Can this be accomplished successfully? yes but not likely in 30 days

Do you accept the challenge? maybe depends on how much the future sucks

Where do you start? NY state someplace

What route do you take? North route during the winter crossing the rivers are easyer

Where do you plan to finish? Washington state

How long do you think it will take you? 30 days if conditions where right
but if I had time to prepare 180 days

What is in your field gear? water purification sleeping bag light tent fire starting material warm cloths

What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you? light metal blades for my sled the rest can be built. book on making a dog sled and the tac for 16-20 dog sled
Barter items IE mirriors and light metal knifes

What are your priorities? training my dogs i buy with eather gold or barter items

How will you carry it? dog sled

What firearms will you take? 300 win mag with 200 rds ruger 10/22 with 2000rds

How much ammo, accessories, etc.? 4 hand grenades case the natives get restless

What edged tools do you take? long knife, short knife, leather working tools a small saw and axe/blunt back used as hammer

What navigational aids do you take? Country Atlas compass distance tracker IE running watch

What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey? 1/1000 in 30 days 1/100 if you had time to prepare for the trip

What do you do in the 30 days before you leave? scout the ground and major obsticals along your route figure out a game plan.
talk to a Iditarod winner and learn tricks they used.


here are some sources I used

http://www.iditarod.com/learn/


http://www.iidoba.org/history.htm

Last edited by 7624U; 05-08-2008 at 18:41.
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Old 05-08-2008, 18:54   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver
Period: Ball, cap and powder, along with a long rifle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
1700 is before percussion caps are invented. State of the art is flintlock.
I thought of that today, and was going to change it. But you're too quick for me Sir.

I would still acquire a Flintlock once there. I can always trade or make my own ball and powder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdiver
What edged tools do you take?

A 20' machete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
The 20 foot machete should be fun to deploy. If you have one, could you post a picture?
D'OH !!!!

I meant this -----> "
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Old 05-08-2008, 19:15   #70
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I'd have my topos printed on light-weight, and durable, fabric that can be used for more than just tender once they become useless.

Pat
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Old 05-08-2008, 22:21   #71
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Alright, so after much internal debate, reading of previous posts, and discussion with a few friends I have devised my list. It is rather in depth and hopefully a bit more thorough than any seen thus far. I have tried to combine aspects of items I would take on a personal extended backpacking trip with items that would be needed on a more militarily oriented adventure. Between the two, I hope I have given myself at least some chance of survival if luck and the weather are with me.

For my route, I feel I would want to take a somewhat central route. It is the part of the country I know best, and it avoids desert areas in the south and the more bitter cold of the north.

Like others, I would spend my 30 days getting any extra training I could on basic and advanced fieldcraft and survival techniques, do a fly-over/driving recon of my route, and compile as much human topography info into my maps as possible. I would do my best to also store the previously mentioned English>Spanish and English>French translators on my PDA as well as the flora/fauna guide.

I think that this trip is possible but not without a bit of good fortune. Training and experience will indeed see you through much in life, but it never hurts for things to just fall into the right place at the right time. In this adventure I think it would be crucial for a bit of "luck" every now and then.

I am a bit of a gear head so I would be more than excited to discuss any of my choices and their pros/cons. So without further ado...
ITEM / WEIGHT (in oz.)
OspreyArgon 110 (6700 cu. in.) 104
Arc'teryx Pack Cover 5.29
Black Diamond Carbon Trekking Poles
Brunton Geo Pocket Transit Compass 10.2
Brunton 54LU Compass (x2) 2.8
Sierra Zip Stove (Titanium Version) 10
Brunton SolarRoll 14 17
Western Mountaineering Alpinlite Bag 31
ThermaRest Ridge Rest Reg. 14
ThermaRest Trekker Chair 20 10.5
Marmot Aeolos 2P Tent (floor and fly only) 56
Petzl Elite (x2) 1.8
Petzl MYO XP 5.5
Canon Powershot G9 Digital Camera 11.29
Extra G9 Battery (x2) 9
G9 Lens Adapter 3
G9 Wide Angle Lens 5
G9 Teleconverter Lens 4
16GB SD Memory Cards (x5) (for maps and pics) 2
Canon Speedlite 430 EX 11
Rechargable AA Batteries (x10) 16
AMREL Rocky PDA (maps, flora, fauna, human topo) 16
Remington 700 Alaska Ti (.30-06) 100
Leupold 3-9x33 Ultralight 11
Rings, Base, Sling 24
400 Rounds .30-06 240
Glock 17 (w/light) 25.29
3 Magazines 15
150 Rounds JHP 64
HSGI Drop Holster 16
Dr. Bronner's Soap 16
5ft Radius Cast Fishing Net 96
Benchmade Mini-Griptilian 2.56
Chris Reeve Green Beret Knife 7" 12.8
Gerber Camp Axe 36.8
Leatherman Skeletool 5
Sharpening Stone 6
SnoPeak Ti Spork 0.6
SnoPeak Ti Double Wall 300 Mug 3.8
MSR Duralite 1.5L Pot (w/pot holder) 9
MSR Duralite Skillet 5.4
MSR Folding Spatula 0.77
MSR Folding Spoon 0.88
Sterling Ropes 4mm P-Cord (300ft) 32
Black Diamond Vaporlock Carabiner (x4) 8
Black Diamond Ovalwire (x6) 9.6
Bic Lighters (x10) 13
Multi Vitamins (500) 24
Adventure Medical Kits Fundamentals (w/extras) 56
AMK Gear Repair Backcountry Kit (w/sewing kit) 16
3L Camelbak Bladder 10
1L Nalgene, Lexan (x2) 13
Arc'teryx Alpha LT GTX Jacket 12.87
Arc'teryx Alpha SL GTX Pant 9
Arc'teryx Solo Jacket 14
Mountain Hardwear Dome Perignon Hat 2
Mountain Hardwear Mesa Convertible Pant (x3) 39
Patagonia R1 Top 9.9
Patagonia Capilene 1 Wicking Shirts (x5) 22.5
Wigwam Comfort Hiker Socks (x7) 15
Wigwam Coolmax Liner Socks (x7) 11
Arc'teryx Rho LT Base Layers 12.9
Fleece Convertible Gloves 8
Tilley Airflo Hat 4
Native Silencer Sunglasses (x2) 1.4
Sea to Summit 20L Dry Bag (x2) 8.4
Sea to Summit 4L Dry Bag 1.7
Bandana (x4) 2
Weapon Cleaning Kit 8
100ft Duct Tape 10
Rite in the Rain Memo Book (x2) 6
100 PUR Water Tablets 6
Crocs Shoes (for camp) 8
Asolo Sassalong Boot (x2) 102
Spice Kit 20



Total Pounds: 89.32875

Agreed, this is a bit heavy. Especially since I am not that big a guy. However, consider that not all of it is on my back. At any given moment, I am moving with all of it but of course a number of the pounds are distributed elsewhere on the body. My goal was 80 pounds. If I cut a handful of things I would like to have instead of trying to convince myself that I need them then I think I could easily get down a number of pounds.

TR, thanks for the challenge.
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Old 05-09-2008, 00:38   #72
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How many satellites were there in 1700?

Reliance on any kind of modern electronics beyond low power lighting is questionable IMHO.

I believe I would be too busy focusing on SA and planning my next move to worry about battery life or LCD screens.

That being said, I would definitely bring my 4 favorite edged tools:
GB 7" knife
Doug Ritter S30V 4" folder
Leatherman Wave
Estwing 16" hatchet

Beyond that, I'll have to think about what I might take in addition to my normal gear for the bush in Alaska. Possibly a different rifle.....

I love this kind of scenario. Generates lots of interesting ideas.
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:09   #73
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I would ask those looking to add their .02 to please read through the entire thread and consider the points that have already been made.

GPS was busted on Page 1, excessive ammo loads have already been covered, as have hunting rifles, large bore center-fire handguns, shotguns, etc.

Those with loads at or above 80 pounds without water of food better hope that some of the gear is edible. 100 pounds is a shocker for those who have never humped it, and you are not very combat effective while loaded to that extent. I would not consider taking 30-40 pounds of ammo for what should be a very long hike. Most experts recommend a load not to exceed 30% of your body weight. A well-conditioned 200 lb. man can move in easy terrain with 100 lbs. of gear. A 120 lb. person will not.

If you are using walking sticks in potentially dangerous country, where is your rifle? If I needed a walking stick, I could probably cut an adequate one in the woods, and take the saved weight in salt or food. Personally, my hands will likely be busy carrying my rifle.

7624U, as stated earlier in the instructions, there are no dogs allowed in this scenario, you must hump the load yourself, solo. I do not think you can pull the akhio that fast.

Just a few thoughts.

TR
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:53   #74
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walking sticks

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If you are using walking sticks in potentially dangerous country, where is your rifle? If I needed a walking stick, I could probably cut an adequate one in the woods, and take the saved weight in salt or food. Personally, my hands will likely be busy carrying my rifle.
While I cant say I have ever spent time in the field during the 1700's personally I think I feel that there will be less of an emphasis on combat that what some others may be perceiving. I think it would be no problem to have your rifle strapped on the pack if carrying a side arm for immediate self defense needs.

Further, the trekking poles offer a number of huge benefits. First, their original use. Physiological studies show that the poles can take as much as 20% of the strain of the opposite knee and leg when used correctly and can take as much as 11 pounds of stress off each foot step on flat ground and 18 pounds off each step when moved to an incline. So, over 3000 miles these lightweight poles have the ability to preserve your health in a big way. If you've never used a pair of poles on a long trip, then you're missing out. I understand they would never work with a rifle in hand, but I don't plan on constantly having a rifle in hand. Of course, if I hit an area I know to be historically dangerous the rifle and poles can always switch places for a time.

Using a wooden stick creates a much larger swing weight every time you put it out in front of you. Again, over 3000 miles this adds up and will require a lot more calories of your body with potentially less ability to take shock off of your knees.

Next consider all their other uses...shooting sticks, stakes for the tent, tarp poles, splinting a fracture, deterrent for small animals, probe for the snow, etc. I love my trekking poles and wouldn't leave the 21st century without them I don't think.
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For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-Jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary period, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which is likely to be the more ominous for the [terrorists] -- an American decision that this is sport, or that it is business.
-D. W. Brogan, The American Character
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:12   #75
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It isn't just combat you have to worry about.

In 1700, the majority of this continent was dominated by predatory game.

I would not want to have my long gun lashed to my pack in bear country, which along with wolf and cougar territory, is a large part of your central corridor.

Not saying you can't take sticks if you want, just pointing out that there might be reasons not to.

I swing my rifle when rucking for the same reason you use your sticks.

What do you plan to eat and drink?

TR
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