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Old 05-07-2008, 16:00   #46
Pete S
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Location: Kitsap WA
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Pack: Kifaru ZXR with XTL
Shelter: Kifaru SuperHootch
Sleeping System: Kifaru Regulator and Woobie
Outerwear: Orc Ind. Level 6 top and bottom
TAD Stealth Hoodie SS
Polartek Watchcap
Set of Fleece long underwear
Merino wool socks, 6 pairs
Asolo GTX's (with Superfeet insoles), one pair
additional pair of Superfeet insoles
convertible nylon pants, one
Wool pants, one
nylon shirt, long sleeve, one
Wool shirt, long sleeve, one
500 ft of 550 cord
Leatherman
Wyoming Saw II
Small hatchet
Hunting knife, 2
Professional sharpening kit
Mess tin
2 Nalege bottles with cup

Sewing kit:
100 ft of 69 nylon thread
30 needles
replacement button can be made with carved bone

Navigation:
Silva Ranger
Sextant

Electronics:
Computer with detailed topo maps, cultural information, calander, Birds of america, Mammals of america, plants of america, fish of america, survival guide, star charts and weather info (if available) on hard drive. ( IIRC the magnetic declination would be off if you use modern maps)
PDA to transfer date to for handheld use.
Solar charger for computer and PDA.
Solar battery charger AA and AAA
Solar watch with compass
LED Petzl Headlamp

Weapon:
M14 with 120 rounds
or
7.62 bolt action rifle (Mauser variant) with 160 rounds.
The magazines for the M14 would add unnecessary weight.

Optics:
4 - 6 power scope with ability to attach PVS 14's for night use
Binoculars
PVS 14's

Salt for preserving food and trading.
Trekking pole with compass in the top
6 x 6 foot net, for hunting fish, birds, and rodents. (Line fishing is an inefficient use of time)

Skills I would learn before leaving:
Leather working (making clothes/ moccasins)
Bow hunting ( in case the ammo runs out)
Cordage making with natural fibers ( in case 550 cord runs out/ making rope)
Weaving plant fibers ( for making shelters, clothing, and nets)
Trapping (so not to waste ammo, and little risk to myself)
Tanning ( pelts for clothing and trading)
Metal working (Making/ repairing tools)
Stone tool making
Spear fishing

I would travel the route Lewis and Clark took. I would leave in March (its named after the God of War for a reason)
I would state a 3 year travel time. This will give me time to not travel in the winter, or overcome any obstacle such as mountain ranges or sickness and still be able to get to the Oregon/ Washington coast early. At which point I would make a permeant structure and wait for my ride without going crazy. The coast will have an abundance of sea life to keep me alive for the rest of my time there.

The most important thing is the preparation for the adventure. Being physically prepared and having the motivation to survive to complete your mission are more important then any piece of gear.
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Old 05-07-2008, 16:29   #47
JumpinJoe1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gagners View Post
How will you purify your water? Crypto will end your adventuring days in short order and it's caused by surface water contamination by poop. Lots of animals back then = lots of poop in the water.

Would look at your weights again and if you have a 70+ pound pack, PLUS your rifle, sidearm, ammo, etc... That'll get nasty heavy in a hurry.

MAXTAB- It's a sextant, I think.
That is why this trip would be difficult at best. With the load I described, it is heavy, with just the basics. I would boil the water, but then your going to need a pot to boil it in. Tabs won't last nine months in my estimation, and I doubt the trip would be made in nine months, because that is a perfect world.
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Old 05-07-2008, 17:06   #48
x-factor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
Did you read the part about significant field time?
I did. I came to the conclusion that while I was not qualified to talk about tactical considerations such as gear, since I'd been helping guys plan missions (including many forms of collection, not unlike the surveying discussed here) for several years now and have a fair amount of expertise in things like human terrain and geospatial IPB, I probably had something of value to add to the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
Since we are talking cultural anthropology, which is a significant topic for SF, I would mark my modern topo map with the Spanish missions and other settlements and would try to route from one to the next as lay-up points, rather than relying on straight line movement. Frankly, I might be willing to temporarily convert and winter over in a mission, rather than a tent, teepee, tarp covered sod hut, etc.

TR
In addition to obvious terrain and water data, before leaving you're going to want to consult with historians and ecologists to build geospatial data layers for your laptop's FalconView (or, if you want to go old school, plastic transparent overlays for your maps):
- Spanish missions
- French fur trapper "rendevous" locations
- Indian tribal boundaries, settlements (with notes on basic language, customs, and inter-tribe relations...each assessed for potential use as an ally, trading partner, lay-up location, etc)
- Weather patterns (to the extent that its available...if its not you can probably extrapolate backwards from existing data and almanacs)
- Animal populations and migratory patterns (when you reach the plains, you'll want to cross reference the buffalo migration patterns with Indian population data to predict your best routes for avoiding/contacting Indian hunting parties)
- Population/settlement data for areas east of the Mississippi (trading posts and frontier forts will be of particular value to assure that you're able to resupply before setting out into truly unsettled territory)

All this in addition to the obvious terrain analysis (cross referencing climate, security, availability of food and water, proximity to humans, etc) you'd do to identify and rate as many natural lilly pads as possible. This analysis will be particularly important if you are injured or fall sick and have to deviate from your primary route.

Also, if we're not worried about polluting the timeline, I'm curious if anyone would consider using superior technology to recruit (coerce?) Indian populations into assisting you? Maybe as a backup plan? (Precedent: Spanish conquistadors.) Its potentially a high-risk, high-reward tactic and maybe not in the spirit of the challenge anyway, but still an interesting option.
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Last edited by x-factor; 05-07-2008 at 17:11.
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Old 05-07-2008, 18:23   #49
Kyobanim
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What you need is an individual water purification device that treats any freshwater source for microbiological contaminants. These purification devices are like the ones used by campers and backpackers. They can treat up to 500 liters of drinking water without replacement parts and minimal maintenance.

Here's what's available:

Item NSN

Filter unit, water purification, pocket 4610-01-503-4590
Element, filter 4610-01-503-4763
(pocket replacement cartridge)
Filter unit, water purification, pocket 4610-01-503-5260
(Sweetwater Guardian purifier)
Filter unit, water purification, knapsack 4610-01-449-5912
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Old 05-07-2008, 18:26   #50
NoRoadtrippin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyobanim View Post
What you need is an individual water purification device that treats any freshwater source for microbiological contaminants. These purification devices are like the ones used by campers and backpackers. They can treat up to 500 liters of drinking water without replacement parts and minimal maintenance.

Here's what's available:

Item NSN

Filter unit, water purification, pocket 4610-01-503-4590
Element, filter 4610-01-503-4763
(pocket replacement cartridge)
Filter unit, water purification, pocket 4610-01-503-5260
(Sweetwater Guardian purifier)
Filter unit, water purification, knapsack 4610-01-449-5912
With respect, three NSNs does not represent what is available for water purification.
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Old 05-07-2008, 18:58   #51
Kyobanim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoRoadtrippin View Post
With respect, three NSNs does not represent what is available for water purification.
No it doesn't. But it was intended to get people thinking about alternatives.
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Old 05-07-2008, 19:09   #52
odoylerules
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
Since we are talking cultural anthropology, which is a significant topic for SF, I would mark my modern topo map with the Spanish missions and other settlements and would try to route from one to the next as lay-up points, rather than relying on straight line movement. Frankly, I might be willing to temporarily convert and winter over in a mission, rather than a tent, teepee, tarp covered sod hut, etc.
TR
I don't have the requisite field time and am barely the age to post, so I won't get into that, but one of the first thoughts through my head was "Southern route - Jesuit/Dominican/other missions."

They're going to take you in, and instead of/in addition to a "temporary conversion," learn up on the Council of Trent, the Cathechism of the Catholic Church (from that time period) and blend right in from the get-go. Plan it right, and instead of being the "lost heathen that Brother Juan found in the desert," you could be "the man who came to our gates praying the Rosary," just plot out the spots on the map, get your timing right and come right before or after a daily Mass, if you could know for certain when it was being said...which I guess you could establish by simple surveillance.

Eat well, good room, companionship. I might be alone in saying this, but I'd start to go fairly nutty after being all alone in the woods for months on end, interacting largely with just hostile natives. Being with people - people who didn't want to kill me - would be a treat by the time I reached that are of the continent.

Forgot to say, I was actually thinking a lot earlier in the thread, regarding camouflage, for dealing with some tribes who would recognize and like it, pack a Roman collar or appropriate ecclesiastical garb. I'm not one for sacrilege, but wearing clerics isn't sacrilege if it's to protect your life.

Last edited by odoylerules; 05-07-2008 at 19:14.
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Old 05-07-2008, 19:28   #53
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I gave this some thought over the night, and here's what I came up with.


Can this be accomplished successfully?

Yes I believe it can.

Do you accept the challenge?

Yes

Where do you start?

St Augustine Florida

What route do you take?

A Southern route. From St. Augustine, westward over the peninsula of Florida and once over that, hug the coast line of the Gulf of Mexico to the Rio Grande. Once there, up the Rio Grande to central New Mexico, then take a left turn at Albuquerque and over the central part of New Mexico and the North Central part of Arizona, to the Colorado river. Down that to the Sea of Cortez and over the Baja and into So Cal.

Where do you plan to finish?

Southern California

How long do you think it will take you?

I plan on 900 days (about 2 1/2 years)

What is in your field gear?

Without getting too much in depth, seeing that most is already listed in other posts, A small mask, fin and snorkel set, along with a Hawaiian sling (pole spear) with several tips. 550 cord. 200' of rope, along with some, not much, mountaineering equipment. My handy dandy Leatherman Super Tool.

What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you?

Modern: On the PDA a Topo map of the route I would take. Also on the PDA, a Spanish/English, French/English and the local tribes along the route language/English dictionaries. Also several chapters from the STP 31-18-SM-TC field manual.

My Woobie.

Period: Ball, cap and powder, along with a long rifle.

What are your priorities?

Staying alive and collecting 10 million dollars.

What firearms will you take?

From today, a 1911 Colt .45 (tried and tested time and time again, and with some great stopping power.)
I would acquire a long rifle, once there.

How much ammo, accessories, etc.?

150 rounds of .45 for the Colt, along with a cleaning kit and spare parts kit. 10 extra magazines.

What edged tools do you take?

My handy dandy Leatherman Super Tool. A 20' machete. A Hersey T-3. A hand ax. An E-tool.

What navigational aids do you take?

Compass. Sextant. Topo map on the PDA, along with hard copies in case the PDA goes T.U.

What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey?

100%

What do you do in the 30 days before you leave?

Travel the route I would take, looking for possible hazards and obstacles that might still be around 300 years later. Research the weather from that time period and see if there are any storms, flooding or droughts as I where to move westward. Any major historical events that took place among the Europeans and local indigs, and avoid them if deemed hazardous.
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Last edited by Sdiver; 05-07-2008 at 19:31.
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Old 05-07-2008, 19:51   #54
lksteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpinJoe1010 View Post
IRope would be useful for roping a wild horse. The problem would be taming them.
Horse...1700...hmmm...unless you steal one on the east coast, it'll be Tejas before you would possibly enounter a wild horse...a long time ago, in a land not far from here, I rode fence for a ranch in the South Park area...had to catch up our daily mounts in a corral...that wasn't all that easy...

As far as the adventure challenge goes, hell, folks spent months in Uwharrie...I'm thinking I'll pass for now...
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Old 05-07-2008, 19:51   #55
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Hostile Natives

[QUOTE=odoylerules;209164] <snip>Eat well, good room, companionship. I might be alone in saying this, but I'd start to go fairly nutty after being all alone in the woods for months on end, interacting largely with just hostile natives. Being with people - people who didn't want to kill me - would be a treat by the time I reached that are of the continent.[QUOTE]

I don't want to sound like "Dances With Wolves" - but in 1700 there were still lots of "friendly" native groups, at least to people who didn't threaten their way of life. While certain groups could be very hostile to outsiders - research could identify them and a route might avoid them - other areas - Pimeria Alta in Arizona for one - were full of agriculturalist natives who had a tradition of welcoming non-hostile/threatening outsiders.
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Old 05-07-2008, 20:31   #56
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I meant to put more emphasis on having been alone in the wild for extended periods, but then I remembered the potential fighting that had been of some interest in this thread, and in addressing it, altered what my message was. Sorry about that.
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Old 05-07-2008, 20:34   #57
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Originally Posted by Pete S View Post
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I don't see an ephemeris on your list...

And the question begs, have you ever used one...?
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Old 05-07-2008, 21:04   #58
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II would probable take the central corridor NC to TN, MO, CO, UT, NV, CA.
Damn, MT, that's mighty dry country,,,I've lived in CO, UT, and NV and work quite a bit in CA...
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Old 05-07-2008, 21:59   #59
Pete S
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Originally Posted by lksteve View Post
I don't see an ephemeris on your list...

And the question begs, have you ever used one...?
I have never used one. Looks like a useful piece of gear though.
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Old 05-07-2008, 22:55   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lksteve View Post
I don't see an ephemeris on your list...

And the question begs, have you ever used one...?
I agree!

With modern topo maps (corrected to the 1700 mag deviation) and a compass, a sextant and ephemeris is just extra weight. I'd use an aviation protractor with the maps and to find latitude at night from Polaris. Longitude is less important on land with good maps and nav skills.

Also, in my thirty days prep, I would do a low level flight of my planned route with maps and flora info from the 1700s. I'd use the Savannah to San Diego route, as well, since I've lived in and explored much of that area west of Louisiana already.

Would I do it? In my 20s...sure. Now, with a family and at my age, no...not for money. For a higher cause? Yep.

@TR

Is the Grandfather Paradox negated? Not for the participant but, for instance, if I'm attacked by Geronimo's grandfather and kill him, will history change?

Pat
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