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Old 05-07-2008, 10:35   #31
gagners
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Originally Posted by TheShootist View Post
I think I would also invest a great deal of my 30 day prep time talking to academics and historians and try to get and idea of what tribes are likely to be where and when.
I concur. What pleased/displeased them? Cultural do's/don'ts? Good thinking.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:53   #32
NoRoadtrippin
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excellent

Gentlemen, this is a great thread. I am hard at work preparing my list.

TR I agree with you completely that a 5.56 weapon is not the best choice. However, as you mentioned before the .308 is fairly heavy. What about a lighter hunting rifle for food and a sidearm for two legged hunting? I suppose if you went without the sidearm by taking the AR then the weight would balance out, but you also arent as versatile. Remington makes a titanium receiver 700 series that only weighs about 6 pounds in .270 cartridge. Of course you would need an optic...

Also, I feel like people could be saving a pound or two on a weapons cleaning kit. Let's remember you're only carrying the rounds you take. It isn't like you are going to buy anymore. A rifle that starts clean and is in good shape should get through the 300-500 rounds people are considering without needing a lot more work. I'd say a small rag (could double up by using a sock or t-shirt you're already carrying), some lube, and a bore snake are likely all you would need.

Also, I agree with the small tent vein of thought. I personally love tarps for backpacking as they are lighter and can be used more creatively, but a tent pitches in more places, provides more shelter against snow, rain, wind and is warmer. With today's fly and poles technology, you can leave the tent body back here in 2008 and thus save a large amount of weight while still retaining many of the tent's benefits.

Just some thoughts. More to come with the full list.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:05   #33
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Sten:

Excellent advice from someone who has spent this amount of time in a primitive area, if not humping a ruck. Your nutrition points are well stated. I did the same prior to survival training, carrying as much weight as I could and eating like a pig till we went to the woods. After five days, I was barely starting to feel the hunger.

I disagree about weapons and fighting natives. Some will be friendly, most will be neutral, and some are going to try and kill you regardless. A good .308 sturmgewehr with a low mag optic is, IMHO, the way to go. I believe that if you drop the first one hard with what to them would appear to be a plasma rifle, the rest may look for easier game. At least, till you stop, make camp, and go to sleep again.

IMHO, a good, battle rifle should last, without cleaning, for far more rounds than you can carry.

While I would like to have 2,000 rounds, I suspect that I would have to get by with several hundred, mostly hunting rounds with a few tracers should a firepower demo need to be given.

No one has picked up on my pistol idea yet. I would either take a 9mm with a .22LR conversion kit, or a .22LR pistol. The .22LR is a great round for dispatching small game and running a trap line. The game return on the weight carried is superior in all aspects for the .22LR. I might take 2,000 rounds of .22, though 1,000 would likely be more than adequate, unless you are a bad shot. If possible, I would look to get an integrally suppressed version (and carry some sub-sonic match loads), so as not to attract too much attention while harvesting game. You could even add a NAA .22 Mini-revolver to the kit for a last ditch/hide-out gun. A head shot, even with a .22, should end most disagreements.

A good Li Ion rechargeable battery should make it through the two years of the trip with power to spare. A solar charger roll attached to the top of the ruck should help keep it charged, though you may have to ration power.

I would expect a high end pair of boots to last till the winter break. At that point, you could repair them with a set of spare soles, or make the soles from leather, if you were able to acquire the hides and tan them properly.

For watches, I prefer the Casio Triple Sensors with the solar chargers. You then have a handy barometer, altimeter, compass, and thermometer.

A dedicated man can survive some pretty bad injuries with minimal care. Stop the bleeding, repair the injury as best you can, etc. Since you are pre-antibiotic, all strains should, in theory, be extremely succeptible to treatment by a good course of appropriate antibiotics. I would carry a BIG med kit, and several bars of soap, though if you save the animal fat, render it, mix it with ashes and some ground up limestone, you can make your own.

The point is well made though that if you act like Bear Grylls and insist on climbing up, or jumping down mountains, trying to swim significant rivers in near freezing temps, playing with local fauna, eating the native flora, etc., eventually, you are going to break a major bone, or get bit, poisoned, etc. Even an encounter with a bunch of bees could be terminal, especially without a video crew to get you out.

Good discussion!

TR
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:12   #34
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Southern Route

What a great topic. Still considering equipment, but think I would include a couple small traps and snares for times when I "hole up" to rest-recuperate-wait out weather-etc. in order to feed myself without using ammunition. Several small metal mirrors would be worth the extra weight as trade items - the edge could be honed for natives to use as a scraping tool.

The southern route would be best for me - weather and familiarity. Start in Charleston, SC through Cherokee Nation (we didn't really piss them off too much until after 1700), end up following Red River through part of Texas, cross NM and pick up the headwaters of the Gila River, follow it to the Colorado. The "bad part" would be crossing through what is now Imperial County, CA along I-8 route, but there are a couple of springs - definitely to be done in winter, cooler temps and more rain.

I'd want to end up in San Diego area - probably around La Jolla Cove. I'd probably include some goggles and a folding pole spear - to feed myself at the Cove while awaiting my time machine (as well as fishing in streams along the way). 18 months would do nicely, but I might allow 2 years for the "unforseen". If I get there early, I just hang out in La Jolla. I'd hate to miss my "pickup"! Details to follow
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:30   #35
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I'd probably include some goggles and a folding pole spear - to feed myself at the Cove while awaiting my time machine (as well as fishing in streams along the way). 18 months would do nicely, but I might allow 2 years for the "unforseen". If I get there early, I just hang out in La Jolla. I'd hate to miss my "pickup"! Details to follow
Why couldn't you just go back to the future BEFORE (which is really after) the trip to ensure proper PZ and just-in-time egress???
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:35   #36
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Why couldn't you just go back to the future BEFORE (which is really after) the trip to ensure proper PZ and just-in-time egress???
One time trip per customer, each way. We can discuss whether to stay or come back in a separate thread.

BTW, the I-10 route you mentioned earlier, goes to LA, not San Diego. Both have significant rugged hills, with many box canyons, if not mountains, to their East. If you ever fly into LAX or John Wayne International during daylight hours, look down at the terrain. Not the easiest to hike through.

Since we are talking cultural anthropology, which is a significant topic for SF, I would mark my modern topo map with the Spanish missions and other settlements and would try to route from one to the next as lay-up points, rather than relying on straight line movement. Frankly, I might be willing to temporarily convert and winter over in a mission, rather than a tent, teepee, tarp covered sod hut, etc.

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Old 05-07-2008, 11:45   #37
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edit - going on a tangent. disregard.
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:00   #38
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I'd take a southern route starting in Savannah and following rivers as much as possible. Historical maps show substantial rivers in place throughout the southwest. Savannah to Columbus to Shreveport, where I would pick up the Red River to Amarillo. At this point there is a tributary that heads west to Albuquerque. From there straight line to San Diego. This keeps you out of the worst of the deserts.

There's good crossing areas at low to medium altitude in the southern Rockies and Sierra Nevadas, though it will definately slow you up there regardless of the time of year. Minimal mild deserts (according to reports posted from the 1800s) to cross but with adiquate water. 2300 miles. 16 months at a leasurly pace so you can take pictures. Could be done in a year but I'd feel more comfortable with a safety margin built in.

More to follow.
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:17   #39
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My field time credentials -----.
I like the way you think. Solo cross country in primitive conditions/times means "gray man" - attract no attention, take no unnecessary risks, make all decisions based on energy expendature and effect on endurance. I.E. NO gambling! I hope TR's recording devices, batteries, etc don't detract too much from what I'm planning/required to carry just to survive.
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Old 05-07-2008, 13:25   #40
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I've noticed everyone wants to carry an AR. I can't remember who mentioined it, but weapon reliablity with minimial maitnence is an issue - Has anyone thought of carrying an AK? Reliable and a stronger caliber with plenty of add-on's avaible.

Excuse my ignorance, just adding fuel to the fire.
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Old 05-07-2008, 13:28   #41
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I've noticed everyone wants to carry an AR. I can't remember who mentioined it, but weapon reliablity with minimial maitnence is an issue - Has anyone thought of carrying an AK? Reliable and a stronger caliber with plenty of add-on's avaible.

Excuse my ignorance, just adding fuel to the fire.
Too inaccurate for reliable hunting, underpowered for large game. Durability a small factor for the number of rounds we will be shooting. Difficult to mount an optical sight.

Handy and might be decent for CQB, but we aren't doing a lot of MOUT in this scenario.

TR
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Old 05-07-2008, 14:13   #42
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Originally Posted by Fonzy View Post
I've noticed everyone wants to carry an AR. I can't remember who mentioined it, but weapon reliablity with minimial maitnence is an issue - Has anyone thought of carrying an AK? Reliable and a stronger caliber with plenty of add-on's avaible.

Excuse my ignorance, just adding fuel to the fire.
I would carry an M14 equiped with an ACOG with at most 200 rounds. In addition to the ACOG I would have a good set of binos.
Durable and reliable, being a .30 cal weapon would be able to take down most game.

Edit: I just recalled that 200 rounds of 7.62 weighs about 15 lbs, so the amount I would take would be less then 200.

I'm still wondering if I would be able to use a dog as moral support, hunting helper, danger indicator, emergency warmer.

Last edited by Pete S; 05-07-2008 at 14:18.
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Old 05-07-2008, 14:34   #43
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Gold - 2# $25000 2
Boots - 4# x3pair 12
Pants - 1.5# x4pair 6
Blouse - 1.5# x4pair 4
T-shirts - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Socks - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Underwear - 0.25# 7pair 1.75
Gortex Top - 1# 1
Gortex Btm - 1# 1
Fleece Top -1.5# 1.5
Fleece Btm - 1.5# 1.5
Knit cap - 0.25# 0.25
Cold Weather Gloves - 1# 1
Work Gloves - 1# 1
Work Knife - 1# x2 2
Hatchet - 3# 3
E Tool - 3# 3
Sleeping Bag - 4# 4
Poncho - 0.5# 0.5
Poncho liner - 0.25# 0.25
Bungie Cords - 3# 3
550 Cord - 5# 3
First Aid Kit - 3# 3
Pack - 5# 5
2qt - 1.5# x2 3
Digital Camera - 1# 1
PDA - 1# 1
Solar Charger - 1# 1
Total Weight 73lbs

Can this be accomplished successfully? Doubtful

Do you accept the challenge? Yes

Where do you start? Charleston South Carolina

What route do you take? From Charleston to Atlanta, followed by Memphis. Then through Little Rock across the great plains to Albuquerque. You would move north of Mesa Arizona through between the mountains to Los Angeles California. Total 2499 miles. The big problem would be crossing the plains in the summer heat. Another would be the plains Indians.

Where do you plan to finish? Los Angeles California

How long do you think it will take you? Moving 10 miles a day, it would take 300 days. The trip can be completed in 8 to 9 months. The trip would start in March and end in September/October.

What modern items are critical, and what items from the period will work for you? Camera, PDA, and Solar panel

What are your priorities? Finding water points crossing the prairie.

How will you carry it? On my back.

What firearms will you take?XD 40 as a side arm, .308 Bolt Action Winchester

How much ammo, accessories, etc.? 200 rounds 308, 50 rounds side arm. Add 5 pounds pack weight.

What edged tools do you take? Hunting knife x2, Hatchet, E Tool

What navigational aids do you take? Standard Army maps laminated and 2 compasses.

What do you think your odds are of successfully completing this journey? Doubtful with the Indians. Once you get by one tribe you will be looking for the next tribe over the horizon.

What do you do in the 30 days before you leave?

Let’s think this one through as stated first, we can do branches and sequels later.

This is one heck of a trek!
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Old 05-07-2008, 15:05   #44
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I'm thinking it would probable take 2 1/2-3 years start to finish. I'm not in a hurry and would just enjoy myself. I would try to average about 7-8 miles a day. Having to hunt and carry all your own food would necessitate the short distance each day, but it is a pace that you could easily keep up for a long time without breaking down your body too bad. I would plan on spending two winters there and would build a shelter provision it and hole up till the spring. Game probable wouldn't be that much of a problem because there was a lot more of it back then.

I chose the M-4 type rifle for the weight, but the Le Mas round for the ability to kill.

I am wearing heavy duty mountaineering boots that will probable last the whole trip if I take care of them. Walk 7-8 miles in them, then when I get to my camp site take them off, put on some mocasins.

I would probable take the central corridor NC to TN, MO, CO, UT, NV, CA.

Tent over tarp-spending that much time out side it would nice to be able to get in under some cover.

my maps would be small lightweight books similar to road atlas's that arent accurate but would be able to tell me where I am and where water is, how to get through the mountains where the passes are, that type of thing. My detail information would be on the pda, and if it breaks I still have the book as a backup.

I would learn how to use one of those star navigation devices (not sure the actual name) and bring one of those with me also.
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Old 05-07-2008, 15:14   #45
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What are your priorities? Finding water points crossing the prairie.

How will you carry it? On my back.

What firearms will you take?XD 40 as a side arm, .308 Bolt Action Winchester

How much ammo, accessories, etc.? 200 rounds 308, 50 rounds side arm. Add 5 pounds pack weight.
How will you purify your water? Crypto will end your adventuring days in short order and it's caused by surface water contamination by poop. Lots of animals back then = lots of poop in the water.

Would look at your weights again and if you have a 70+ pound pack, PLUS your rifle, sidearm, ammo, etc... That'll get nasty heavy in a hurry.

MAXTAB- It's a sextant, I think.
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