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Old 12-27-2004, 16:11   #16
snip3r
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Thanks so much!

Thank you very much for your very detailed reply.
It is much appreciated.
From what you said, 18A doesn't really sound like the MOS I'm looking for.
18B more likely.
Thank you again,
Nick
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Old 12-27-2004, 17:01   #17
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If you won't join unless it is as an officer, then forget 18B (or anything other than 18A as far as SF is concerned). Take TR's recommendations and do your time as a platoon leader and company commander, then come to SF to be an 18A.

If you get over the "I only want to be an officer" thing then you will likely do better. I started as a private E-1, became a 18B weapons sergeant, did that for 7 years, then entered a commissioning program and I did my time in the not-so-special forces as platoon leader, XO, etc.

THE BEST OFFICERS WERE ENLISTED AND NCO's FIRST!!! If you have an attitude to the effect that you are too good to be anything but an officer then your first platoon sergeant is going to hand you your ass on a silver platter, and an attitude like that is likely to keep you out of SF. Keep in mind that SF is primarily an NCO organization and has little room for arrogant officers.

My suggestion - join up as a private (yes, a private) and earn your stripes. You may or may not go SF as an NCO, but you will at least learn how it is to be one of the troops. After a few years, go to OCS or some other commissioning program. You will make a much better Lieutenant if you have spent some time as a private, specialist/corporal, and sergeant. Once you make Captain you can consider becoming a SF Officer.
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Old 12-27-2004, 18:01   #18
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Originally Posted by Jo Sul
THE BEST OFFICERS WERE ENLISTED AND NCO's FIRST!!!
I disagree.

All commissioning sources commission good and bad Officers. I have seen my fair share of poor Mustangs and of excellent Mustangs.

Colonel Rowe was never enlisted.
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Old 12-27-2004, 19:35   #19
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For your benefit, I'll go line-by-line in your temper-tantrum post (yeah, that's basically what it was; admit it, start listening instead of pouting and ranting, and learn) to show you how at least one guy who's already done some of what you want to do.

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one, I am no child, nor do I act, speak, or look like one.
Actually, you've said you're sixteen. To many folks here, you're still very much a child. Additionally, as I've already stated, this post of yours is the web version of a temper tantrum (I didn't get my way so I'm going to yell and insult people), which is a childish thing to do.

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two, how is wanting to be an SF stupid? if you say my question is stuipd then you are saying that being an SF is stupid. Is that what you're trying to say?
I'm betting Gits was referring to your earlier, multiple posts demanding information about sniping within SF, not becoming an SF soldier. You completely missed the farily obvious reference, again demonstrating a child-like attention to detail.

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three, when recruiters do not respond to letters, goarmy.com is sketchy on what to do before joining, and I don't know any SF's in which I can ask these questions, WHO CAN I GO TO?!?! Tell me! Cause I really wanna know. Everyone who joined the military in any branch has been at my level and was in the need to know about what they were about to join, and the commitment they were making.
Just because we live in the information age doesn't mean that you will get every question you ask answered. Some information you will learn when its the right time and appropriate, no sooner. Then again, were I a recruiter and you demanded information of me as you've done here, I'd give you nothing, either. Respect is a two-way street. Further, I'm guessing you don't know everyone who has joined the military in any branch, so declaring that you know their abilities and can definitively compare your preparation to their's is absurd.

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four, I take great offense in being called a child, as I am only 2-4 years younger than most SF's in the field.
This only goes to display how little you really know about SF soldiers, despite your claimed research. The average age on my team was 33, more than twice your 16 years, so no, you are not only 2-4 years younger than most qualified SF soldiers currently serving. Again, to us, you still are (and certainly are acting like) a child.

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five, when I am in the position that everyone currently in the armed forces has been in at one time, I think they should be understanding and have a little respect.
Remember that little 'two-way street' comment? Also, understand we're not here to serve you. There are so many qualified SF candidates (especially in the officer ranks) that SF branch is turning people away. Whether you as an individual feel you are capable means nothing on the whole. If you want us to take the time to answer your questions, be respectful, use proper grammar (that whole attention to detail thing again) and ask well thought out, appropriate questions.

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six, nowhere in my comment did I mention sniping. I sure didn't see it. And even if I did, snipers are an integral role in the Army, wars are not fought with CQB alone.
You asked about sniping in earlier threads the folks here deemed inappropriate, either in content or method of asking. We have pretty decent attention spans, and aren't easily fooled. Don't try to pull the wool over our eyes and expect not to be called on it. As for sniping, how do you know (besides what you've read in books) the role snipers play? There are folks here that were doing that job for decades before you were even born, so how about you leave the factual statements to them, and realize you don't know what you don't know.

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If my questions are so stupid, tell me how they are stupid. I have heard no reasoning behind this. All I hear is that I'm stupid, my questions are stupid, I'm a child and no one wants to talk to me.
If all you hear is that your questions are stupid, maybe you should wonder why that's what you're being told. You could say, "I've obviously come across here very poorly. I have some SF-related questions I'd like to ask and was wondering if someone could help me find the answers I'm seeking, if they're relevant to my goal of becoming an SF soldier." That's the adult way of recovering from your earlier faux pas, not getting all puffy-chested and trying to bully your way into a group of predators who see you as a snack rather than a threat.

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The Army isn't some secret society in which it's a closely guarded secret in joining.
Again, what do you really know about the Army? I'll answer that for you--very little. There are some things you don't (and won't) know, and its not up to you as to whether you'll learn them or not.

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Why can't you people stop avoiding the question and answer me?
I'm growing sick and tired of this. I asked a fair, and relevant question about the 18A MOS. We're on the same side people! Why can't you just answer a few simple questions?
We can, if we choose to. Again, we're not here for your benefit, or at your beck and call. More respectful questions and far, far less demanding would serve you well right about now. Understand your operational environment (you may hear that one again in the distant future, if you can get your act together). If you're truly sick and tired of this forum, you're more than welcome to leave. In fact, you may leave whether you want to or not if you continue down your current road.

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There's nothing hard nor childish about it, I'm sure you all were asking the same questions when it came to signing on.
That may be true, but many of us tried to enter SF knowing little to nothing about it, simply did our best in an ambiguous environment (another 'you'll see this again' moment), and let those who knew infinitely more about the needs of SF decide whether we had the core requirements needed to become an SF soldier. You may think you need to know something, but in truth you very well may not. That is not up to you to decide. Demanding in the face of this reflects very poorly on your maturity, decision making ability and emotional stability. Think about that for a moment. If you don't want to be treated like a child, don't act like one when you don't get your way. Now, you've already made a very poor impression on the people here that are qualified to answer your questions; you may want to back up, cool off, make some heartfelt apologies and try again with a bit more respect. Your fate here is in your hands.
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Old 12-27-2004, 19:49   #20
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Words of wisdom from several SF Officers who were kind enough to post very professional replies. Learn from their great advice.

BTW, the average age of my last Team was 34.
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Old 12-27-2004, 20:53   #21
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Originally Posted by Doc
Words of wisdom from several SF Officers who were kind enough to post very professional replies. Learn from their great advice.

BTW, the average age of my last Team was 34.
Drag the curve up did ya Doc?
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Old 12-27-2004, 20:55   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenhat
All commissioning sources commission good and bad Officers. I have seen my fair share of poor Mustangs and of excellent Mustangs.

Colonel Rowe was never enlisted.
I agree - prior enlisted service does not make an excellent officer nor does lack of such service make a bad officer. However, it is my opinion (and opinion only) that the same person will make a better officer if they have the benefit of having served on the enlisted side.

In my opinion (again) those officers that look down at enlisted soldiers based on their exalted rank have no business being officers.
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Old 12-28-2004, 04:50   #23
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Drag the curve up did ya Doc?
Yeah I did.
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Old 12-28-2004, 06:12   #24
brownapple
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Originally Posted by Jo Sul
In my opinion (again) those officers that look down at enlisted soldiers based on their exalted rank have no business being officers.
This part I agree with. I am not convinced that enlisted service automatically makes a better Officer, having seen too many Mustangs who could not recognize the difference in the role between NCOs and Officers.
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Old 12-28-2004, 06:50   #25
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Originally Posted by Greenhat
This part I agree with. I am not convinced that enlisted service automatically makes a better Officer, having seen too many Mustangs who could not recognize the difference in the role between NCOs and Officers.
This is an interesting gunfight but before we go comparing body part lengths we all are speaking from experiences that we have had. Now I will agree we all have seen officers that thought their rank had to do something with status, intelligence, height, looks, and divinity-especially in the early years of SF. From what I have seen from the sixties to the nineties, there has been a definite change, over all, for the better primarily because of the creation of the 18A MOS. That is not to say that we don't get our share of mental midgets and power freaks, but on the whole I think after an 18A comes to a team, regardless of source of commissioning, those who have delusions of grandure about themselves undergo an epiphany. From my experience team members will break him from sucking eggs in about a week and in those cases where that doesn't work the chain of command will resolve the problem. Now I cannot explain what happens when some folks suddenly get promoted and move on, perhaps it has to do with the infection some seem to get from the pins holding on their new rank.
Just my observation.

Jack Moroney
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:52   #26
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Snipe,

If you have any future questions about the process you would take to become an SF officer you can PM me and we can discuss it there. The process of course up until where I am currently at now.

Background on me. I was not prior service enlisted (although I have SF NCO's in my family that I could always turn to for input.) I entered college with the intent of becoming an Army Officer. I was commissioned as an Infantry LT and attended the schools that an infantry LT would need to attend. I did my platoon leader time in the 82nd Airborne and submitted my application to be selected for a chance to become a SF officer. I have recently finished Phase 1 Special Forces Assessment and Selection and was selected to continue my training. I am currently heading to Benning for the Captains Career Course and then return to start the Special Forces Qualification Course.

***Disclaimer*** I am not a Special Forces qualified 18A. I am merely in the process of achieving that goal. I can give you input on the steps you need to take to get to the same point that I am at now. I do not have the experience or the knowledge of the QP's on this board in the matters of SF. So please keep your questions related to the path you need to follow to get where I am at now.

That is if you are even still lurking in these parts after such a long time!
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Old 01-07-2006, 10:08   #27
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Originally Posted by airbornefox
Snipe,

If you have any future questions about the process you would take to become an SF officer you can PM me and we can discuss it there. The process of course up until where I am currently at now.

Background on me. I was not prior service enlisted (although I have SF NCO's in my family that I could always turn to for input.) I entered college with the intent of becoming an Army Officer. I was commissioned as an Infantry LT and attended the schools that an infantry LT would need to attend. I did my platoon leader time in the 82nd Airborne and submitted my application to be selected for a chance to become a SF officer. I have recently finished Phase 1 Special Forces Assessment and Selection and was selected to continue my training. I am currently heading to Benning for the Captains Career Course and then return to start the Special Forces Qualification Course.

***Disclaimer*** I am not a Special Forces qualified 18A. I am merely in the process of achieving that goal. I can give you input on the steps you need to take to get to the same point that I am at now. I do not have the experience or the knowledge of the QP's on this board in the matters of SF. So please keep your questions related to the path you need to follow to get where I am at now.

That is if you are even still lurking in these parts after such a long time!
AF:

Snip3r was banned over a year ago, so I doubt it. Note the "Banned User" title under his name.

The high-school kid is a known wannabe and poser on several boards, BTW, and has been booted here with at least two different user IDs, usually within his first few posts. He has previously requested info on sniping, probably not a topic most HS kids should be collecting info on, nor are we going to provide him. He is a long way from becoming an 18A, and has some seriously mistaken ideas about what SF is and does.

TR
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Old 01-30-2006, 22:14   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornefox
I am currently heading to Benning for the Captains Career Course and then return to start the Special Forces Qualification Course.
This one caught my eye, and if I may offer my $0.02

To the future 18As:
Learn and absorb from IC3 or whatever Captains Career Course you attend. Mounted infantry company tactics...you'll probably see it again....dismounted infantry company tactics...you'll probably see it again.
Those courses which you might choose to (or have already chosen to) blow off as "insignifcant" such as IPB or MDMP...I'd be willing to bet a beer or two that you will see it again.
That 'boring' lecture on fire support... "Logistics? Who needs to pay attention in that class by the loggie guy...I could be PTing" Keep thinking that... If you search through some of these threads, you will find some references to the pre-Branch days, when an SF officer served as a INF BN staff officer...probably a good reason. Think you only need to pay attention to the Company level planning? What is the role of an 18D besides giving you a bandaid ? What is the role of an 18C besides making things go boom?

The second piece of advice I would offer is this. Special Forces means special training in a special form of warfare...not special privilages. Everyone in the military receives special training, how many 18As know how to manually calculate a gunnery firing solutions? How many 18As know how to pilot a helicopter? How many 18As know how many 463-L pallets can be loaded in a C-130?

Lastly, sell SF. How can we help the other branches / services to do their job better, easier, faster, simpler?
How can we (SF) support them? We may be the "tip of the spear" but without the rest of the spear... Just like D.I.M.E, Military is only one part of the whole.

V/R,
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Old 04-16-2006, 16:12   #29
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I have read a lot on this site about the SF pipeline for enlisted guys going through the 18x program. I am currently in some ROTC classes and interested in the Army after graduation. I mentioned that SF was my goal to the NCO teaching my class. He recommended the officer corp to a guy with my educational background and thinks I would do quite well in it. He said if SF is my goal I can go for 18A. My question is what is the recommended pipeline for a guy in my situation if 18A is my goal? After getting a commission as an Infantry officer, on average how long is it before you are considered branch qualified and able to attend SFAS?
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Old 04-16-2006, 18:30   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe111
I have read a lot on this site about the SF pipeline for enlisted guys going through the 18x program. I am currently in some ROTC classes and interested in the Army after graduation. I mentioned that SF was my goal to the NCO teaching my class. He recommended the officer corp to a guy with my educational background and thinks I would do quite well in it. He said if SF is my goal I can go for 18A. My question is what is the recommended pipeline for a guy in my situation if 18A is my goal? After getting a commission as an Infantry officer, on average how long is it before you are considered branch qualified and able to attend SFAS?
Hey Joe,
"Where you going with the gun in your hand?" - Hendrix...couldn't resist.

With your educational background...hope you got a couple of scholarships.
18A is the only option for SF officers. Recommended pipeline is to get you a combat arms branch, but not just combat arms, maneuver...ideally, Infantry. Second choice would be Armor...with Combat Engineer third (their secondary mission is Infantry).

Would recommend two years Platoon Leader time minimum. Will give you enough time to understand the basics of the Army before jumping into SF. Key will be staying in touch with the SF Branch Future Readiness Officer (the SF Officer Recruiter), to ensure you submit your SFAS packet as soon as your year group is eligible. Year groups are filling up quickly and he who hesitates is lost...but that's the job of an LT.

Best of Luck,
JM

Oh, and fill out your profile...
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