Old 05-19-2006, 17:24   #46
Monsoon65
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Radio, Bio, or Chem?

TR
Radio. Fallout particles can be washed off. You just need to do it in a place where you won't track it back inside your house, etc. I don't think it's much use in a Bio or Chem incident.
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Old 05-20-2006, 13:32   #47
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Radio. Fallout particles can be washed off. You just need to do it in a place where you won't track it back inside your house, etc. I don't think it's much use in a Bio or Chem incident.
Depending upon the permeability of the suit, it could work for some forms of Chem or Bio.

We used to be told that in the event you did not have your chem suit, the rainsuit or poncho was better than nothing.

Most bio weapons have to be aerosolized to distribute, most other vectors are too unreliable. As long as you wear a mask and do not inhale the agent, get it in an open wound, your eyes, ears, nose, or mouth, and washed yourself off with a decontaminant after exposure and before unmasking, you should be okay.

Thus the need for a lot of hot water, bleach, and a slurry pit.

Unles someone wants to talk about air further, and we can revisit it, that brings us to our next topic, First Aid, Medicine, and Escape gear.

The idea here was that if you are trapped, not breathing or and bleeding out, the rest of the stuff on the list is a distant consideration.

Thoughts?

TR
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Old 05-20-2006, 13:52   #48
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Escape gear.
With earthquakes in mind, we have a 3' wrecking bar and
2xD cell flashlight next to each sleeping position. We should have roll-up escape ladders for the upstairs bedrooms, but do not (yet). Perhaps a small FAK next to each bed would be a good idea, too.

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Old 05-20-2006, 16:10   #49
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disasters ready??

What happens during a disaster weather it a tornado to a Tsunami it all up to you. You have to know where your located at and who your there with - Family, Friend, Coworkers, ETC. You have to be ready for the world to come down on you. Just like get into that new Hotel or Club or restaurant. Do you know how to get out of it when you first get them? Where are the Fire Exits, Delivery doors, how do you get to the back door from the restaurant?

You can break it down by the areas you live in. Like the western USA - so you don't have hurricanes or flood you have wildfires and maybe earthquakes. So what you need compared to me here in NC is different. I like the 3" wrecking bar next to each bed. Great Idea - have to tell me relatives in Hell Fran Area, CA. (9th Dist)

I think some things that I feel that are need in disaster like a hurricane or an earthquakes are mobile communication and electronic (C-E) vehicle platform capable of operating in an urban to rural environment in support of Federal, State and Local Government emergency management incident. Something that is Four X Four and can be dual fueled if not Hybrid fuel system. Something that can support all Bands of CE and provide cellular and has a cross-band repeaters. I know there are some large tractor trailer systems out there, but they are to big. You need some in the HUMMVE or van size. We learned so there being made now.

Also I think an expandable tractor trailer system that is a mobile medical center. Not a hospital in the sense but some that can be set up to provide medical care and move fast once it is needed by the changes in the environment. During a disaster the events can change very fast. you have 4-5 of these 54 Trailers you can have a very mobile medical clinic.

With your family you can think the same way just smaller. TR and other have posted some really good points to think about. We in the military cross training with other skills so we all know how to do them to a point. Cross training is needed with everyone. If you don't know how to start the generator, work the computer reporting program, or even the radio system. Start the radio from a "Cold Start" then you need to cross training. Everyone is a specialties, but you need to know how to do the other guys JOB to a point.

Things that I like are:
- mobile satellite telephone communications
- I got to have XM satellite radio - just wished in work outside of the USA
+ real world I would like a broadcast reception with mobile satellite ability and local television reception for all levels
- onboard navigational system information
- wireless Internet access best a satellite
- intra-team communications all bands
+A 8.5 kW AC/DC generator power source for equipment and external ancillaries.
+Pack the family bags so if needed we can go. Wife knows what file draw need to be loaded up and grab the small fire safe.
+ Everyone knows what they are to do, just like in a fire drill. Maybe I'll do one tonight and see if the kids get to the mailbox again.

I think listing what your what type of disasters are with in your Area (AO) and telling us what you do to prepare for them and/or what your local Gov't does. Would better provide ideas on how "you" can be prepared, even our families in the disaster that they face.

.02 VG
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Old 05-20-2006, 18:54   #50
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat

I think listing what your what type of disasters are with in your Area (AO) and telling us what you do to prepare for them and/or what your local Gov't does. Would better provide ideas on how "you" can be prepared, even our families in the disaster that they face.
I'm within a stones throw of Three Mile Island (TMI)! I think even "minor" problems would be "major"! My plan is to head upwind of anything. Problem will be the roads. All will be designated "outbound", but I don't think that will last for too long. How many parents are going to leave their kids in the hands of the schools? Most will try to get them, so it will be a huge parking lot on the highways.
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Old 05-20-2006, 20:02   #51
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I'm within a stones throw of Three Mile Island (TMI)! I think even "minor" problems would be "major"! My plan is to head upwind of anything. Problem will be the roads. All will be designated "outbound", but I don't think that will last for too long. How many parents are going to leave their kids in the hands of the schools? Most will try to get them, so it will be a huge parking lot on the highways.
I would say that thinking outside the box, you need to get off the roads. Do you have access to a boat? How about four wheelers or dirt bikes? That evac should not require any large amount of luggage, as it should theoretically be short term.

Let's try to keep this on track with first aid/medical and escape (being emergency escape from some sort of confinement).

If you are near TMI, live downwind, and expect some sort of additional problems, on the first aid medical side, I would think about Potassium Iodide pills, suits or slickers, and hoods or masks.

For escape items like the wrecking bars, axes, and shovels could also be helpful, or chainsaws, as would knowing how to use a scissor, hydraulic, or Hi-Lift type auto jack to move debris. Having a few, 2x6s, 4x4s or other shoring material to stabilize debris or structures could be handy. If not a winch, definitely a come-along, some rope or cable, and some chain.

I would ditch the D-Cell lights for 123 powered lights. The run time and shelf life are significantly better and the light is tremendously more powerful with the 123 lights.

How about you paramedics and firemen? What would you want to keep handy for self-extrication or rescue from collapsed structures? A Hurst Tool is probably not practical.

TR
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Old 05-20-2006, 20:20   #52
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since I do a lot of sailing now, I have a lot of gear that is "dual purpose" - when racing you always have to be pepared for an emergency, and the gear has to be portable.

Now to ask a question to answer a question - should I be thinking as a trained 18D, or joe anybody,with minimal if any training? I'll break it into 2 parts for the med gear.
1. Just your average joe - a good basic prepackaged first aid kit should work - anything else is going to overwhelm the user. You don't want anything but basic meds - aspirin, acetominophen, ibuprofen (yes all 3 - they do lsightly different things), oil of cloves, a good triple antibiotic ointment, betadine, possibly a basic broad spectrum oral antibiotic, anti diarrheal, WATER PURIFICATION (betedine, bleach, heat tabs, something...) contaminated water will kill the patient. Blankets, basic splints. That should cover the novice for a medical kit.
2. for the 18Ds - go big or stay home - rebuild your full M5 for the field - to include the stainless items, meds and a splint set - you will be the 1st trained provider - 'nuff said.

A lot of wrong can be done itf the untrained try to practice medicine - I think that's a subject I won't touch - it took 15 months of training and a couple of years of hands on experience under senior medics and docs in hospitals to get really good. for the average joe - join a volunteer ambulance squad, take classes, and keep your skills up.

Escape fear.
1. a good marine band vhf handheld rxtx - at least 5 mhz as a top end with scannable wxband - mine is a rechargeable (wall or car or boat) and was about $150, wt about a lb, at West Marine -it will pull all 9 NOAA stations, and all 99 mb freqs - open and closed - commo is escape gear.
2. a diesel vehicle - mine gets 44mpg - at slow speeds near 50mpg and 700+ miles to the tank - and it will burn #2 heating oil so I can siphon from farms, fuel tanks, semis, and homes (get a mi-t-vac it's great for siponing, and a pela 6000 oil extractor -it's got a 2 gal holding tank)
3. Rope/biners/seats, blocks, pitons, gloves
4. Knives - a good survival (I need to find out how to get on the list for the Yarbrough, all the links are broken), a 'rope wrench' - rigging knife, and a couple of good folders.
5. foul weather gear - breathable
6. packable food
7. water purification / canteens
8. lensatic compass & maps (old school), and a handheld waas/whc gps
9. boots!!! hi-tec magnums are a good all around - and my issued Chips are still in great shape for a heavy duty
10. sleeping bag and poncho liner
11. if you are not in my state a rem 700 chambered 7.62 Nato, zeiss 40x400 passive ir scope, and ammo to your desired weight level
12. again if you are not in my state - handun of choice see ammo note above.
13. chem lights
14. dual purpose short baton / breaker bar
15. piezo electric flashlight and an led tec light ot two, small, lightweight, and bright (non tactical, right)
somebody else take over, this ruck is nearly full - I'm assuming this is a nontactical, true get your ass out of this AO situation - right?
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Old 05-20-2006, 20:35   #53
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Hey, focus here.

Good input, but we will get to wheels and bug out kits later.

What we are asking about now is first aid kits, medical supplies, and escape equipment.

Great medical list, but here is also where the N95 masks and surgical gloves go.

I would also add a rescusitation mask. You may not want to put your lips on everyone you are trying to help. An electronic BP cuff, a thermometer or three, and maybe a stethescope.

Nothing wrong with throwing in the Kerlix and Coban for trauma treatment, maybe an eyepatch or two. Several cravats. Povidone iodine. Neosporin. Eye drops. A topical analgesic. A syringe for irrigating, and some sterile saline. Cold packs. Bug juice. Moleskin and Tincture of Benzoin. A set of EMT shears. A good pair of tweezers. A set of forceps, maybe a hemostat. Some scalpel blades. Some 2x2 and 4x4 sponges. Large safety pins. Surgical tape. Lots of bandaids, some Super Glue, and some butterflies or steri-strips. A tourniquet, if you know how to use one. Same with splints, IV sets, and bags. Only if you know how to use them, or expect to be with someone who does.

For meds, an anti-diarrheal, an anti-emetic, some broad-spectrum antibiotics, cold meds, Benadryl, hydrocortisone, a few serious pain meds, if you have the prescription, aceteminophen, ibuprofen, and aspirin. Antacids. Water purification tabs. Oral rehydration salts. Glucose. The oil of cloves is a good call. Many physicians will hook you up with the basic scripts if you tell them that you are planning some overseas travel and want to take along some vacation savers.

If you are on meds, try to build up a few months stockpile, but watch the expiration dates. I would want at least 90 days supply on hand in the fridge.

Some of this could be in a portable kit as well as a fully stocked home kit. One of the biggest things is knowing where everything is. You do not want to start searching when you need a one-handed tourniquet. Get organized, keep an inventory (with expiration dates) and anything that you use gets replaced ASAP.

Damn, you are right, this IS getting heavy! And don't be trying to pawn your gear off on me to carry.

TR
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Old 05-21-2006, 08:25   #54
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Great medical list, but here is also where the N95 masks and surgical gloves go.
TR
Great thread, I'm trying to keep up!

For a home kit, and with a disease-centric focus: While N95 and surgical gloves are best, there are cheap alternatives. Rubber dish washing gloves, goggles/shooting glasses, and a bandanna are better than nothing. I presented this idea around a table with a bunch of physicians (we were talking about "I waited too long to prepare and now everything is gone" alternatives. They immediately scoffed and attacked the idea -- wraparound glasses and a bandanna won't filer out 0.5 micron viruses (duh). I pointed out that a major infection route -- possibly THE major infection route -- is touching the mouth, nose or eyes with contaminated fingers. The bandanna and glasses prevent these unconscious actions.

Hmmm they said, maybe you have something there. (Score one for the guy with no letters after his name!)

If you have to go out for food/medicine/whatever during a pandemic, place a dishpan with a 6% bleach solution in the garage/back porch before you go. Step into the pan (thin rubber "Wellies" would be a good footwear choice), remove outerwear and then drop gloves, glasses, mask into the disinfectant, then step out of boots. Then wash yourself carefully with soap and water.

Sunlight is a great disinfectant for clothing -- let it sit for "several" days before re-use. (I am investigating if there is research that says how long H5N1 lasts in sunlight -- I have heard less than 2 days on dry surfaces but need confirmation).

Get a couple of extra bags of pool shock to make sure you don't have to skimp on disinfecting.
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Old 05-21-2006, 08:37   #55
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I would say that thinking outside the box, you need to get off the roads.
Follow the utility right-of-way. At least around here, there is a fan of right-of-ways leading away from the reactor in all directions (all those towers marching to the horizon) and they are well maintained. You'll need the tools TR lists -- you will hit locked gates. A good topo map will show the routes. Do a recce for ones that go into the prevailing wind to look for traps (impassable embankments, etc.)

Sorry, back to med kits.
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Old 05-21-2006, 08:50   #56
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mugwump:

The pool shock was a great suggestiuon, I have since seen other sites with that info.

That solved the problem of the bulk and shelf life of liquid chlorine bleach.

Having had a pool, I was familiar with the product, though it did take a while to find a product locally without a lot of additional chemicals like vinyl conditioner and algecide.

I also think that the liquid chlorine in the multi-gallon jugs from the pool supply store might be available fairly late in an emergency (if it is during pool season) and would work as well, just not as concentrated.

Your pan of chlorine is essentially a slurry pit.

TR
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Old 05-21-2006, 09:09   #57
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Living with TMI as a Mountain view

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsoon65
I'm within a stones throw of Three Mile Island (TMI)! I think even "minor" problems would be "major"! My plan is to head upwind of anything. Problem will be the roads. All will be designated "outbound", but I don't think that will last for too long. How many parents are going to leave their kids in the hands of the schools? Most will try to get them, so it will be a huge parking lot on the highways.
Monsoon - Man o' Man live next to TMI

Age of kids will drive this. Look if TMI is and a China Syndrome then you and they need to act. Yes, no school will do the right thing. They need to get out - as TR said out of the box thinking now.
Me I would see what the school and school districts plan is for TMI in the different levels. They should have a written plan that is public release. Just like here in NC they have for Hurricanes coming through here. See what there plan is for you kids in their schools. Different ages will have a different plan. Take their plan and make it yours.

1) Can you kids leave the school? With you and friend or family member Who is closer? Can the leave on their own, do you want them to? If they can where do they go, can you have a meeting spot? They can move there and meet up with whom ever is to get them. Like you say, the parking lots and school roads will be packed, I just look at when I drop my off or pick them up. Madness!

2) as TR said - off road - you have a 4x4 Vehicle? Well that cougar that you drive can still go off road, it all in how you drive it. Do you drive with a "Survival" pack in your car. So many Americans do even have a roadside kit in there cars. In AK you have to have by law at standard set of equipment. But do people really carry them when the live in Anchorage or Fairbanks, AK. So what do you really have in your car to survival on.

3) Your Movement - during a TMI melt down your not really looking at down power lines or tress. Or are you? DO you need escape items like the wrecking bars, axes, and shovels or Hi-Lift type auto jack to move debris. It maybe need, why because you have DONE a pre-route drive on the off road routes out of the threat area. There may be some trees in the roadway, they were there on your RECON. Having some 2x6s, 4x4s vehicles could work but do you have them now and does your family ride them off road? Having a small bit of shoring material to stabilize debris or structures would be handy; can you find this along the roadway? If not then having some would work out - plan ahead. Does your vehicle have a winch? Then like TR said definitely get a come-along, some 1" rope or cable, and some chain, along with a towel that can be thrown over the rope to chains if your pulling on something.

4) The city or town your in have an Emergency Plan for a melt down, Yes, but do you know what the plan is? Find out, its preobaly on line. Looking at what their EVAC routes plans are and plan you own on the backroads that you know.

5) Medically wise - you have to plan for basic ABCs
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Old 05-21-2006, 10:25   #58
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Great thread. We begin the region's annual exercise this week in preparation for the upcoming hurricane season, moving up a COR level each day. I'm reading through the instruction now, checking it against TR's posts.

We are at sea level and have to be able to evacuate housing in 30 minutes, so I would ask that portability be considered in this discussion. We used to keep a hurricane/tsunami kit in the trunk of the car, but I need to be able to carry what I'll need here. That makes water a big issue for me. Also, we have a lot of families with small children. If anyone has specific recommendations for evacuating children, they would be welcome. My kids were in middle-school by the time we went through our first tsunami.
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Old 05-21-2006, 11:05   #59
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Great thread. We begin the region's annual exercise this week in preparation for the upcoming hurricane season, moving up a COR level each day. I'm reading through the instruction now, checking it against TR's posts.

We are at sea level and have to be able to evacuate housing in 30 minutes, so I would ask that portability be considered in this discussion. We used to keep a hurricane/tsunami kit in the trunk of the car, but I need to be able to carry what I'll need here. That makes water a big issue for me. Also, we have a lot of families with small children. If anyone has specific recommendations for evacuating children, they would be welcome. My kids were in middle-school by the time we went through our first tsunami.

There should be plenty of water up in the mountains. Make sure that you have the ability to purify it. For the most compact method other than the WP tablets, look at the MSR MIOX. Great little device. All you need is salt and batteries.

You will need containers as well, several companies, including Coleman make collapsible 5 gallon water bladders.

Food would be another consideration, MREs or freeze-dried would be a good bet in your circumstances. At least three days worth, more if you have the money and space.

If you are going to stay in the woods, take the usual camping essentials. If you are going to a shelter, focus on comfort items that might be useful there.

A tsunami can be such a short notice event that it is more likely than not that the roads will be jammed. Have the gear in a ruck or at least bags with straps if you have to go to foot. Bikes might be a good idea as well.

HTH. Let me know if you have specific questions.

TR
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Old 05-21-2006, 12:37   #60
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There should be plenty of water up in the mountains. Make sure that you have the ability to purify it. For the most compact method other than the WP tablets, look at the MSR MIOX. Great little device. All you need is salt and batteries.

You will need containers as well, several companies, including Coleman make collapsible 5 gallon water bladders.

Food would be another consideration, MREs or freeze-dried would be a good bet in your circumstances. At least three days worth, more if you have the money and space.

If you are going to stay in the woods, take the usual camping essentials. If you are going to a shelter, focus on comfort items that might be useful there.

A tsunami can be such a short notice event that it is more likely than not that the roads will be jammed. Have the gear in a ruck or at least bags with straps if you have to go to foot. Bikes might be a good idea as well.

HTH. Let me know if you have specific questions.

TR
Thanks, TR.

Fortunately, the families here spend a lot of free time up in Waimea Canyon (where we'll evacuate to on-island) 4-wheeling, hunting, fishing, hiking and riding the trails on mountain bikes. Like you said, there is plenty of water but it isn't potable (lots of wild pigs up on the ridges).

I need to make sure my ladies are prepared to drive, since the majority of the guys will be in the air. Any recommendations for moving supplies on mountain trails other than rucks? I was thinking about bags for the mountain bikes that the older kids could ride. We'll be carrying the small children.
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