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Old 06-22-2010, 02:08   #61
Landlubber
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Downrange "testing"

My team has 6 x Light, 6 x Heavy, and 1 x MK-13 (EGLM) in AFG now. We also took our full compliment of M-4s. A few of the salty guys that were late additions to the team refused to patrol with the new weapon systems, no worries. A couple of us ran them through the entire PMT (6 WHOLE weeks, WTF!) and have used a variant of the two SCARs throughout this deployment. We got in a pretty heavy contact on one patrol. During the PMT we had a cracked pistol grip where it attached to the lower receiver and it had to be replaced (SCAR L). The weapon systems took some time for the operators to adjust to, as already mentioned in this forum. I have had, to date, zero malfunctions from the SCAR H since we received them a year ago. The SCAR-L gave me one magazine feed issue, placing the magazine in with the bolt forward, and then charging the bolt resulted in a double feed??? Other than that , I've had no issues.

I'm not an 18B or an armorer, and frankly know just enough to keep my weapon working and clean, so my technical knowledge is limited to basic user level. I will say that hands down, having 7.62 rounds (LR) flying out towards the enemy at significant range (600-800m) has been a big advantage. Most of our engagements have been at range. My SOs use their own weapon systems mission dependent, and a couple of my guys carry the SCAR H, and half the team is using either M4s or SCAR Ls. The issue is cross loading ammo. We went black on ammo in all systems during the big TIC and our speedballs came in and saved our ass. Me and two of my guys carrying the SCAR H with the LCAN and the bipod/fwd pistol grip loved the set up and had good affects. I had to put out some suppressive fire and the limitation of only 20 rds per mag sucked. Speaking of mags, the SCAR H mags are one of a kind, not interchangeable with M-14s / SR-25...WTF?? I guess FN needs to make their money, but how did we let that happen?

I like the capability this weapon system brings to the team. With our SR25s, 240, SCAR-Hs, M-24s, and the sketchy M110s (no more sketchy then the SCAR I suppose), we have a team wide 7.62 capability which is pretty relevant for this AO. I've seen the latest MARSOF teams show up with a couple of SCAR Hs (only weeks ago), and now my new STS guy just brought a SCAR H and MK-13 into theater. I've also heard rumor the we (USASFC) will not receive more SCARs or parts, but this team has definitely enjoyed the 7.62 capability on this trip, regardless of platform. Who ever has the power, we've got to get the teams this 7.62 capability (besides belt feds and sniper systems) for this theater.

My two cents...I don't care what weapon platform it is, I just want to be able to have 7.62 across the team if we so deem it necessary. The SCAR H has served us well on this trip, although I'm sure there are better weapon systems out there. My question is, not unlike most of yours, why don't we have them?

BTW, can someone tell me when I'm coming home??!!
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:33   #62
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SCAR (L)- out, SCAR (H)- in.

Could be all BS, but I ran into my GRP Civilian gunsmith in Balad a few weeks ago and he tells me that the SCAR (L) will not be retained by SOF, but the SCAR (H) 7.62 will remain on teams or arrive to teams so that we can keep the 7.62 assault rifle capability.
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Old 01-18-2012, 21:25   #63
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After coming across some civilian praise for the SCARs, I revisited this thread because of the progression of history contained here.

I'm curious now how the SCAR-Hs are holding up? I spent some time a couple of years ago at the training armory at Crane doing some maintenance on the SCARs...mostly replacing cracked trigger housings and cursing the little parts.

Are they holding up under use or is the honeymoon over?
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Old 01-18-2012, 22:42   #64
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...I'm curious now how the SCAR-Hs are holding up? I spent some time a couple of years at the training armory at Crane doing some maintenance on the SCARs...mostly replacing cracked trigger housings.
Are they holding up under use or is the honeymoon over?
The honeymoon was over before the vows were said for most of the Regiment. In fact, of the 4 assigned to our ODA only one has been fired and of that one probably only 200 rounds for fam fire.

I will stick with the other 11 sniper rifles we have (13 if you count the M110s - I dont consider them "sniper" rifles.)

Crip
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Old 01-19-2012, 00:13   #65
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We turned in our MK16. It didn’t offer enough to swap from our M4s. Depending on who you talk to, the MK17 has its uses other than familiarization and ammo expenditure. With the Elcan Specter DR 1x/4x sight with M118LR rounds, its a nice substitute for carrying a sniper rifle while on patrol. But for an assault platform, it sure kicks pretty hard. Guess you won’t be the guy suppressing…
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:52   #66
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So the 17s are not getting used much. Thanks.

Considering that, I doubt there is much more to add than has been already discussed in this thread.

If anyone is using them operationally and has positive comments, I'd be interested in hearing them. It seems all the positive comment have come from static ranges.
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Old 02-05-2012, 14:58   #67
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We had some NET training a few months ago before our deployment on the MK17. I was skeptical at first mostly due to the polymer lower but I have been carrying it for the past few weeks and so far I do not have any negative comments on it other than the polymer lower and I do not like how the sling attaches to it. The sling attaches to metal loops on the weapon via metal hooks on the sling and after each patrol I have noticed a lot of metal shavings that over time might cause a problem. The cracked receiver is due to people messing with the trigger mech. when it is field stripped. The hammer will slam into the rear portion of the mag well and over time it will crack. I know because at Joint Armors I was checking out how the trigger mech. on it worked and letting the hammer fly forward. The instructor came by and told me not to do that because it could crack the receiver. He then pointed out that the receiver was already cracked and that was why. He also told to refrain from taking out the trigger mech. as the pins that hold the trigger mech. in place, in time will not fit so snug, metal and plastic don't mix. I decided to carry it for 3 reasons, I prefer 7.62 over 5.56, if we go mounted and I am on the CROWS I like how small of a package it is with the but stock folded and the 13 inch barrel and since we have one I mine as well use it. We have 2 of them on our team and both are being carried so as time goes I can give you more feed back.
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Old 03-17-2012, 15:54   #68
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Impressions

I've been carrying the MK 17 since I got in country. Been loving it. I have switched between barrels, as I had the 20in on there, but now that's off since it's huge and gets in the way of everything. Now I'm rocking the standard 16in barrel with the SCAR-specific, 130gr 7.62mm rounds. I went with those due to the higher muzzle velocity vs. M80 and M118LR and that they were designed in conjunction with the SCAR.

Pros:

1. Accuracy. The SCAR is an extremely accurate gun. The shot group is very tight, definitely 1 MOA or better every time. I have been able to hit 800m with a 1-4x Elcan and the 130gr rds with consistency. Even the 13in barrel will hit 500m with ease.

2. Ergonomics. The ability to raise and lower the cheek weld independent of the length of pull is very nice. The amount of options for adjustment seems a little daunting, but getting it to fit you makes it worthwhile.

3. Gas piston operation. Maybe just personal preference as my personal AR is an LWRC, but I am a firm believer in gas piston guns. Yeah, the report is a little louder and there's a bit more kick and flash, but I'll take those trade-offs for the warm and fuzzy I get knowing that my gun won't have a malfunction due to the heat and carbon buildup in the chamber and bolt.

4. Ease of disassembly/reassembly/cleaning. Too easy. Not a lot of moving parts, no tools needed, and the gas piston operation makes cleaning a breeze.

Cons:

1. Reciprocating charging handle. It's bitten me a few times. Having it mounted on the right, my hand hits the optic sometimes, so I moved it to the left and have had fewer issues with that.

2. The magazines. I wish they would've gone with standard mags. I worry about dropping mags since we don't have too many replacements. The SR-25 pouches kind of work, but not as well as if it was with an actual SR-25 mag.

3. Component durability. As stated in the previous post, I too have noticed the ease at which the metal sling loops wear. I have corrected this by using the 2-point VTAC sling, but it would be an issue for guys who want either a single point or if their sling has metal attaching clips. The buttstock is also held into place by the plastic lower, and neither seem to be particularly sturdy. Haven't seen it yet, but I've been hearing that the buttstock breaks easily.

4. Not everybody is using it. If I run out of ammo, I can't bum a mag or two from somebody else. I'm SOL or delinking 240 ammo.

All in all, I have to say the pros outweigh the cons. The fact that it's 7.62, accurate as hell, gas piston, and ergonomically pleasing is much more worthwhile to me. But as always, YMMV.
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Old 03-17-2012, 17:21   #69
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Quote:
1. Reciprocating charging handle. It's bitten me a few times. Having it mounted on the right, my hand hits the optic sometimes, so I moved it to the left and have had fewer issues with that.
Take care with the bolt handle on the left side. It is easy, at least in our play, to knock the bolt out of battery and not know it until you need it. Dry firing in a fire fight sucks big ones.

This usually happens by snagging on gear while moving, the charging handle will be pulled slightly to the rear and thus bring the bolt out of battery.

Have you had heating problems on the forestock? This was another major problem when we fired the weapon. It took less than a mag to make it uncomfortable and the second mag would make it a pain.

Good luck brother!
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:29   #70
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Take care with the bolt handle on the left side. It is easy, at least in our play, to knock the bolt out of battery and not know it until you need it. Dry firing in a fire fight sucks big ones.

This usually happens by snagging on gear while moving, the charging handle will be pulled slightly to the rear and thus bring the bolt out of battery.

Have you had heating problems on the forestock? This was another major problem when we fired the weapon. It took less than a mag to make it uncomfortable and the second mag would make it a pain.

Good luck brother!
It's amazing in this day and age they cannot make a free floating charging handle, one that locks down after being charged......... I'm not too keen on that handle moving back and forth and did not even think about the possibility of knocking the weapon out of battery just by a slight tap on the charging handle! Bad design.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:06   #71
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It's amazing in this day and age they cannot make a free floating charging handle, one that locks down after being charged......... I'm not too keen on that handle moving back and forth and did not even think about the possibility of knocking the weapon out of battery just by a slight tap on the charging handle! Bad design.
They can.

It was designed that way because that is what USSOCOM told them was required. IIRC, it is in the RFP.

TR
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Old 03-18-2012, 13:10   #72
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I haven't had an issue knocking it out of battery yet, but I'll be watching for that. Nor have I had the issue with the hot forestock as I use a GripPod on it, so I'm not touching the metal.

However, I will run a little bit of testing to see if I can get it to go out of battery. I would prefer to find out beforehand if it should be something it's prone to.

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Old 07-13-2012, 09:42   #73
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SCAR Hvy

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Is there some major flaw that makes the SCAR suck, functionally? I trust you guys more than the powerpoint on how much SOCOM says it's great. I didn't care too much for the ergonomics, but all I've done is hold the thing.

Also, just out of curiosity, what would you like to have seen in the SASS?
We picked up 2 17's on our way down range and I agree the grip and location of the selector is just, well odd. We zeroed them and shot them with and without the suppressors however the put off a tone when fired. A Ding if you will and from what I was told mind you that is why optics and attachments such as LA-5's break when used. At the time the only optic I was told you could use successfully were optics for the 240B, like those are just lying around. So for night work useless! Finally we just folded the stocks and put the mags in or blowout bags and used them as car door guns.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:55   #74
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CHarging handle location

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It's amazing in this day and age they cannot make a free floating charging handle, one that locks down after being charged......... I'm not too keen on that handle moving back and forth and did not even think about the possibility of knocking the weapon out of battery just by a slight tap on the charging handle! Bad design.
The handles location is terrible. Not to mention you have to find the sweet spot for gripping the forearm, if not the handle will give your thumb a nice little kiss! Of this I am not a fan.
Iron sights are the same for the heavy as the light which was strange and kind of cheap if you ask me. Cheek weld is awkward due to the adjustment of the cheek pad or "cheek plastic piece" if you will.
When I finally got mine zeroed it was dead on and had very little MOA difference when suppressor was added. But here is a kicker I had to adjust the rear sight all the way to the left side, strange. My senior at the time and I verified the zero and all adjustments to the stock to try and find some "give" in the alignment. But one setting down on the cheek pad was too much and it went on from there. Cool looking and great car gun but uh for a car gun can't we just use an AK, they are cheaper and the ammo is abundant? Just saying....
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Old 08-01-2012, 23:36   #75
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not to like please add in .....

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Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
Concur on all counts.

The SCAR may be functional, but FN has not designed an ergonomically friendly weapon since the SAW. Probably all of the French fashion designers working there.

Consensus at the user/operator level is that the maker of the SASS will eventually deliver a product that will be very late, less accurate than the prototypes, less reliable, fragile, finnicky, and extremely expensive to own and maintain. Time will tell.

I agree the 417 would have been worth waiting for. At least one unit has a few now, but as I understand it, they were incredibly expensive.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR
the trigger set up ,controls made of plastic and magazine [its not a m-110 which in the system ] a little rework is needed before gen issue ...
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