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Old 02-27-2010, 18:41   #46
The Reaper
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Guys, your exchange might be better taken to PM.

You are in the open here.

TR
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Old 04-04-2010, 19:31   #47
allamerican8204
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SCAR 16

I hope I don't offend anyone by replying to this thread, as i'm not a QP and relatively new I have been on a pretty good bit and mostly reading but I do think I have discovered FN's intentions.

I recently(this week) purchased a new SCAR 16 in black. I wanted to get a good assault rifle, as I have mostly handguns and hunting rifles & shotguns. I had gotten a big check from the GI bill and wanted to treat myself. Being a veteran of the 82nd I had plenty of experience with an M4 and was looking for a change. Well when I researched some of the newer weapons coming out I came upon the SCAR series and numerous articles of how "nameless operators" loved it and SOCOM had adopted it. Well what better way to validate the greatness of a weapon than it being adopted by SOCOM and prefered by actual Operators? Well now I realize my mistake of having access to this forum and after purchasing I simply searched "SCAR" and came upon this thread. My impressions of it after shooting it is that it is exceptionally accurate. With the eotech after a few groups zeroing it I was able to make one ragged hole with 3 rounds(American tactical XM193's). However, with a dpms that would have run $1000 cheaper I could have most likely done the same thing. I agree with the early post that it is not a quantum leap in technology. Also the stock feels great to me once I adjusted it just right but it does seem flemsy and like it would fail after heavy use. One question I did have, has anyone who has fired the military version have any problems with the noise level? I know the muzzlebreak is different on the civi version. On the very first shot (I wear hearing protection when firing handguns but never with long guns) I completely lost hearing in my left ear. It was worse than firing my kimber. I would imagine if the noise level is the same on the military version you would easily go deaf during an engagement firing only a magazine. Well there is my .01 cents sorry if it's not my place to post on this subject. But I think FN is making a killing on selling the civi version touting it's SOCOM contract and those "nameless operators."

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Old 04-04-2010, 19:51   #48
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One question I did have, has anyone who has fired the military version have any problems with the noise level? I know the muzzlebreak is different on the civi version. On the very first shot (I wear hearing protection when firing handguns but never with long guns) I completely lost hearing in my left ear. T.P.
I hope you enjoy your purchase. Everyone has the right to learn their own lessons in life. My question has to do with the quoted portion of your post. Are you out of your ever loving mind? Rifles are far more damaging to your hearing, not just for the decibles but for the frequency too. You've only got one set of ears and anything that causes you to completely lose hearing, also causes permanent and cumulative damage. We've got a number of threads here devoted to hearing protection for excellent reasons. Crickets (tinnitus) can mask sounds that might give you sufficient warning to save your life. Why do you think the Army developed the current generation of earplugs (that can be worn outside the wire)? Why do you think SF is using electronic hearing protection? I go as far as to keep a set of the SureFire plugs in my carry bag with my pistol, just in case I have time to put them in before things get noisy.
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Old 04-04-2010, 23:47   #49
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Wow thanks for that. Now that I think of it that makes a ton of sense. I started shooting at a very young age and shot a lot because I lived in a rural area and it is very easy to go out shoot and I also hunt. During my time on AD i always wore ear plugs on the range simply because we had to. Also during that time, I didn't really get a chance to shoot much outside of the military. Now I'm almost done with college and when in town I have to go to the range @ the national forest and I wear hearing protection because everyone else is shooting god knows what. Maybe it's possible it didn't bother me before hand because I damaged them so bad. And during the AD time up until now i either wore plugs or shot rarely so that allowed them to heal, heance why it hurt so bad this weekend. And the hearing protection the army developed you are referring too, is that the yellow/green ear plugs? We were issued those on the very tail-end of iraq, right before I got out and I never had a chance to use them. But thanks again you may have saved my ability to hear.

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Old 04-05-2010, 08:21   #50
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Originally Posted by allamerican8204 View Post
Wow thanks for that. Now that I think of it that makes a ton of sense. I started shooting at a very young age and shot a lot because I lived in a rural area and it is very easy to go out shoot and I also hunt. During my time on AD i always wore ear plugs on the range simply because we had to. Also during that time, I didn't really get a chance to shoot much outside of the military. Now I'm almost done with college and when in town I have to go to the range @ the national forest and I wear hearing protection because everyone else is shooting god knows what. Maybe it's possible it didn't bother me before hand because I damaged them so bad. And during the AD time up until now i either wore plugs or shot rarely so that allowed them to heal, heance why it hurt so bad this weekend. And the hearing protection the army developed you are referring too, is that the yellow/green ear plugs? We were issued those on the very tail-end of iraq, right before I got out and I never had a chance to use them. But thanks again you may have saved my ability to hear.

T.P.

Just to clarify the point, hearing damage does not "heal".

As I understand it, the temporary deafness may go away, but the actual damage is permanent. Once it is gone, it is gone forever.

I hope you learn and conserve what you have left.

FWIW, I hope you enjoy your purchase, and agree with your assessment that you could have gotten similar performance for a lot less money.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 04-05-2010, 14:34   #51
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To add to the warnings on hearing damage, I am looking into hearing aids now. I have a few years behind the long gun and few years before the hearing pro being mandatory. Protect your ears. I have nights I have a hard time sleeping due to all the "noise" I presently hear all the time, and becomes a crescendo when it is quiet.

I have no idea how much this is going to cost but I can not hear most conversations and only guess at what is being said, which makes for some interesting replies.

Where your dam hearing pro!!! It is not macho not to, it is stupid!!
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Old 04-27-2010, 15:29   #52
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My company tested both the SCAR-L and the SCAR-H at our PMT and i have to say I wasn't blown away or anything by the gun but it is not a bad weapon. Most of us will grumble all day about the muscle memory already being in place with the AR platform and that we should not change anything because that is what the operator is comfortable with currently. I have been away at school for 3.5 months and Im not sure if the guys took the guns downrange but it looks as though this platform is not going away so we might as well embrace it.
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Old 05-14-2010, 22:17   #53
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Personally....I would rather carry an FNC, even though you have to be plastic man to work the safety.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:53   #54
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If you wish to embrace the SCAR, that is great, just be careful of the following:

With the reciprocating bolt handle, you can knock it out of battery when yo have to use two hands for a task and lay the weapon along your side with the sling or bang it on something while building climbing or hook it on your body armor or mag pouches, or any other pouch. All of which has happened as we played with it and any of which would be a very bad shock in combat.

With the reciprocating bolt handle take care of you fingers and thumb in some shooting positions as the bolt can and will whack them good during rapid fire in a stress shoot event that tests your ability and requirement to fire in other than range only conditions. Unfortunately most guys only shoot it on the range when they state they like it and not under stress while moving on targets of both hostile and friendly; during climbing or movement through obstacles; or when working on one problem and a "bad guy" target appears.

IF you are in a fire fight, protect your non firing hand on the forestock as it will give you second degree burns. It is ill protected and insulated and after two mags will really warm up your hand.

Embrace but wit full knowledge, not just because it looks cool. And unfortunately that is why some say they like it. It looks futuristic and cool. "I like carrying it because it looks bad assed." Good shit, how did it perform in combat situations?

Last post on this one, sorry, I had promised myself that I would not post anymore but nothing pisses me off more than hearing you may as well embrace something as it is a done deal. That is exactly what the forces of mediocrity want you to do. I refuse to do that and ask only that the forces receive a weapon that is the best out there, not the one that looks cool, the one that we may as well accept, or one that is change for change sake to get Congress off our backs over some "perceived" problems by some channel on cable vision. I want a weapon that is a quantum leap and that truly is worth the dam money or put the money in realistic ranges and give the troops range time to actually KNOW how to shoot and not try to make technology do it for them.

My LAST 2 CENTS on this subject.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:20   #55
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Rick -
my two cents on your last two cents... I've played with both the SCAR-L and H and didn't like them but if I mention that in some other places, I am just a hater, etc...

Your creds are far beyond most (other than the operator in these pictures) and I always appreciate your opinion and insight on topics. For sanity's sake, please don't hold back...
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:45   #56
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Rick -
my two cents on your last two cents... I've played with both the SCAR-L and H and didn't like them but if I mention that in some other places, I am just a hater, etc...

Your creds are far beyond most (other than the operator in these pictures) and I always appreciate your opinion and insight on topics. For sanity's sake, please don't hold back...
KOZ, WHERE did you get that picture of Stras from??
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Old 05-16-2010, 12:25   #57
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KOZ, WHERE did you get that picture of Stras from??
I googled FAT Stras pictures....



Ok I actually googled fat airsoft kid...
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Old 06-03-2010, 20:28   #58
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Scar

Shot and did detailed disassembly of Scar and variants at Joint Armorer's course. This weapon is a liability. The trigger housing group, while the genesis is the FN has been hopelessly over-complicated; over 7 springs. You need a bench and dental picks to unfu*k the lower. The extracter rentention pin is retained with a washer. It is smaller than an M-4 or M-16 variant, so you can imagine, this thing is tiny. Instructors said the pin is angled down so it will still cycle if the pin falls out. I'm sorry, but depending on an engineering guess is not realistic. The instructors where lukewarm about it as well. But they just dump ammo until they break and log it. This thing has been built by committee.

The one drawn from the armory was assenbled with the wrong bolt; the heavy 7.62 rotating bolt was in a 5.56 variant. The previous class was filled with SEALs; go figure.

The reciprocating handle is the first complaint from those that shoot this thing, but the long term maintainance issues are overly complicated, and designed (in my oppinion) to drive costs up and let FN make more money.

In the meantime, I'll work with the broke stuff I got now.
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Old 06-03-2010, 20:46   #59
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Shot and did detailed disassembly of Scar and variants at Joint Armorer's course.
I'll be attending the course in August and now have another reason to look forward to it. I have only shot the SCAR light once so have no practical experience with it. It will be interesting to get a closer look.
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Old 06-20-2010, 17:23   #60
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SCAR update

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents,

First off I'm just going to put down what I know as fact from experience with this weapon MK-17 (7.62 variant) My team has 12 SCAR Heavy's, I don't let my team use anything but them, because of the previously mentioned differences in the M4. I agree it was completely foreign feeling in my hands and it actually took about five and a half months before it seemed as familiar as my M4 once had. Me being a knuckle dragger from the CIF and all. I am very familiar with the m4, I remember when we broke them out of the boxes guys had similar complaints then as with the Barrettes; So my intent was to just jump in with both feet 100% committed to test this weapon. I agree the weapon is not perfect it is to loud, gets really hot, and the bolt took a little getting used to. We have shot these guns all day long at flat ranges, as a matter of fact we had shot several thousand rounds through these guns without cleaning them and have not had one single weapons malfunction. The suppressors are junk they need to be thrown out who really cares about silencing it if i'm shooting a 4 foot fireball......I use the Standard barrel on mine the rest of the team all uses the CQB(shorter) barrel none of us has tried the long barrel yet as where we are located in Iraq currently we can't shoot past 100 meters. the sling attaching point needs to be re worked But I can Say and this is my opinion all 21 years of it...THIS GUN WILL SAVE LIVES...If I, a person who has spent most of his career in the CIF can learn to use and appreciate the SCAR anyone can. Just keep and open mind and look at the tests....TTPs change all the time that is what we do, we adapt and evolve faster than big army that is why we are the tip of the spear.
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