Old 09-02-2019, 07:10   #1
JJ_BPK
Quiet Professional
 
JJ_BPK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NOVA
Posts: 10,112
New 6.8 round for the NGSW

Published 5 days ago

Although it looks like the request for bid is open on the rifles, the requirements for the ammo were somewhat restricted.

Base on this article, It looks like the new round will make it hotter, but about the same size as the 7.62x51 nato.


Quote:

MARS Inc. and Cobalt Kinetics Submit NEW Carbine, LMG and 6.8mm Cartridge for US Army NGSW Program

Posted 16 mins ago in Daily News, Defense, Rifles by Hrachya H with 156 Comments, Tags: 6.8mm, Cobalt Kinetics, long barrel recoil, MARS Inc., MARS Rifle, NGSW, NGSW-AR, NGSW-R

Quote:
Washington Utah, August 28, 2019

The Army has been soliciting design and manufacturing firms for a next-generation weapon platform. This NGSW program is expected to produce a replacement for the M16 battle-rifle and SAW machine gun. Along with the request for this all-new weapon, this project demands a new cartridge to be developed alongside and incorporated into these new battle rifles.

The initial call-out for the program seeks to dramatically increase the terminal power and effective distance of the 5.56 NATO and even the 7.62 NATO. The performance of the new cartridge will rival the exterior and terminal ballistics of some current commercial magnum hunting cartridges. It seems a worthwhile endeavor to outfit each soldier with an 8lb rifle that can hit a 1 MOA hardened target, and penetrate that target up to and exceeding 1000 yards. If that’s not enough to impress, this new weapon will fulfill these requirements without compromising the control and handling characteristics currently accepted in the M16 and SAW light machine gun.

MARS, INC of Montana teamed up with Cobalt Kinetics of Utah early in 2019 to realize this seemingly-impossible task. The brain-trust of MARS approach the modern semi-auto rifle from a fresh perspective while Cobalt Kinetics’ skill and expertise at precision manufacturing made the idea a reality. The resulting weapon presents as an extra-large framed AR-patterned rifle- with a huge magazine well to accommodate the new cartridge. Inside the handguard one can identify a large recoil spring wrapped around the barrel- an essential part of any long-recoil operating system. For those unfamiliar with this type of mechanism, it’s not unlike your grandfather’s Browning Auto-5 shotgun. But make no mistake, this is not your grandfather’s battle rifle. The bolt and barrel, while locked, are allowed to travel freely within the action under the recoil impulse generated by the 6.8mm short magnum cartridge (the guns fire 140gr .270 caliber bullets at 3200FPS). This operating system causes a great deal of recoil energy to be spent and dissipated before the total recoiling mass delivers a blow to the shooter’s shoulder. Similar systems have been employed over the past few decades in some soviet rifle and machine-gun designs. This operation has been labeled as “shifted pulse recoil”. The recoil impulse is effectively distributed over time, while its speed is reduced by a spring and buffer system before the stroke is complete. The result is a slower and softer impulse to the shooter- more to the point- This rifle is as controllable and comfortable to shoot as the old low-impulse 5.56 platform, while doubling the effective distance and energy.

Besides reduced recoil, there are many other advantages of long-recoil semi-auto operation. No gas escapes the barrel into the action- this rifle, with full-auto capability, runs as clean as any bolt action. When operating with a suppressor, the long-recoil system actually runs more reliably and with less recoil that unsuppressed. Of course, the added mass slows down the barrel/bolt assembly but that extra mass and resultant momentum to the recoiling assembly help the system power through dirt and particulate that can foul other semi-auto mechanisms. And the addition of suppressor does not contribute to increases fouling in the action as the system operates so slowly (relative to DI or piston) the propellant gasses and powder-charge fallout have fully evacuated by the time the bolt unlocks and opens to eject and reload the weapon.

MARS and Cobalt have developed 2 versions of the “MARS” rifle. A 13” barreled lightweight carbine and an 18” barreled light machine gun have been supplied to the ARMY for testing and evaluation. Both are fed from proprietary 20 round box or 70 round drum magazines. Both are capable of semi and full-auto fire. The MARS rifles have been designed to incorporate the newest “smart” battlefield tech to keep the soldier connected and adaptable as battlefield tactics become more advanced. These technologies include a central power source to supply all peripheral accessories while tracking and displaying their performance and status. Light, illumination, direction of fire, total rounds fired between service intervals, ammunition supply in the magazine, and operating temperature can be tracked by a central command module on the gun. This information can be communicated to remote command to support the soldier of tomorrow.

Michael Merino, President and CEO of MARS Inc. adds: “I can’t think of a better collaboration in this industry. Our MARS rifle design, coupled with the innovative approach to rifle manufacturing of the Cobalt Kinetics team, has been incredible. We believe that we have a rifle design that meets the requirements of the Army’s ambitious NGSW program. We are excited to be part of evolution of military effectiveness. We also plan to release a commercially available version of this rifle, in the first few months of 2020.”
Quote:
The two companies have also developed a short magnum 6.8mm (.277 caliber) cartridge that launches 140gr projectiles at a muzzle velocity of 3,200 fps. Both the carbine and LMG have enlarged magazine wells to accommodate the large box magazines. These guns are fed from 20-round box magazines or 70-round drums.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-ngsw-program/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MARS-Cobalt-NGSW-R-NGSW-AR-2.jpg (26.9 KB, 35 views)
__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh

"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
JJ_BPK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 08:45   #2
Peregrino
Quiet Professional
 
Peregrino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,641
Impressive concept; both weapon and ammo. If adopted it ought to carry us through until we get to handheld lasers in the gigawatt range.

Everybody always wants more. More range, better terminal ballistics, more "tools" to "manage" information. I'm hoping this time "more" also means somebody is putting emphasis on increasing hit probability. (Because marksmanship training doesn't put any money in a contractor's [or congress person's] pockets and 1/2 to 2/3rds of the ammo load at twice the range means far fewer adversaries out of the fight.)

I don't think anyone is going to be enthusiastic about carrying the same basic load they're carrying now with the 5.56. Not to mention the "power management" system (batteries anyone?) to run all those management tools. Wonder what the barrel life is going to be (and how they're getting 3,200 fps from both a 13" AND an 18" barrel)? And what it's going to weigh/cost when the horse committee finishes giving us another camel (F-35 anyone?).

Would I like to have one? You bet (I am impressed with the concept). It would be really handy if I'm still here when the aliens finally show up. But until I win the lottery, I'm sticking with what works today.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
Peregrino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2019, 09:52   #3
JJ_BPK
Quiet Professional
 
JJ_BPK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NOVA
Posts: 10,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino View Post
Impressive concept; both weapon and ammo. If adopted it ought to carry us through until we get to handheld lasers in the gigawatt range.

Everybody always wants more. More range, better terminal ballistics, more "tools" to "manage" information. I'm hoping this time "more" also means somebody is putting emphasis on increasing hit probability. (Because marksmanship training doesn't put any money in a contractor's [or congress person's] pockets and 1/2 to 2/3rds of the ammo load at twice the range means far fewer adversaries out of the fight.)

I don't think anyone is going to be enthusiastic about carrying the same basic load they're carrying now with the 5.56. Not to mention the "power management" system (batteries anyone?) to run all those management tools. Wonder what the barrel life is going to be (and how they're getting 3,200 fps from both a 13" AND an 18" barrel)? And what it's going to weigh/cost when the horse committee finishes giving us another camel (F-35 anyone?).

Would I like to have one? You bet (I am impressed with the concept). It would be really handy if I'm still here when the aliens finally show up. But until I win the lottery, I'm sticking with what works today.
What he said..

Shades of the M-14 M-1956 LCE battle load 2-4 pouches, w/2(20rd)mags in each.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg m1956 lce 2.jpg (76.2 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg m1956-lce-1.jpg (299.1 KB, 30 views)
__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh

"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
JJ_BPK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 07:37   #4
Box
Quiet Professional
 
Box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 3,941
bullets - we just need better bullets

logistics be damn - just get some better bullets because the tiniest improvement in ballistics at LOOOONG ranges is much more important than effective shot placement inside of 200 yards.

better bullets - its what we need
__________________
Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, or The 1st Special Forces Regiment. These opinions are provided purely as social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.

...Hillary Klint0n is NOT my president


"Make sure your own mask is secure before assisting others"
-Airplane Safety Briefing
Box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 11:43   #5
JJ_BPK
Quiet Professional
 
JJ_BPK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NOVA
Posts: 10,112
More info from SIG:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIG SAUR

SIG SAUER Selected by U.S. Army for Next Generation Weapons with New Ammunition Technology, Lightweight Machine Gun, Rifle, and Suppressors
Published Date: 09/03/2019

NEWINGTON, N.H., (September 3, 2019) – SIG SAUER, Inc. is proud to announce the official award of a contract by the U.S. Army in the down-select process for the Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW). The award encompasses the complete SIG SAUER system consisting of 6.8mm hybrid ammunition, a lightweight machine gun, rifle, and included suppressors. SIG SAUER will provide single-source manufacturing for ammunition, weapons, and suppressors allowing for less risk and increased capability for the U.S. Army.

“The U.S. Army is leading the world in the first significant upgrade to small arms in decades to meet the growing demands of soldiers on the battlefield. We are honored to have been selected for the Next Generation Squad Weapons program bringing increased lethality to the warfighter over the legacy weapons,” began Ron Cohen, President & CEO, SIG SAUER, Inc. “At the core of our submission is our newly developed, high-pressure, 6.8mm hybrid ammunition that is utilized in both weapons, and is a significant leap forward in ammunition innovation, design, and manufacturing.”

The SIG SAUER 6.8mm hybrid ammunition is designed for increased penetration at greater distances. Cohen continued, “using patent-pending technology the SIG SAUER Ammunition division has engineered a completely new cartridge resulting in a more compact round, with increased velocity and accuracy, while delivering a substantial reduction in the weight of the ammunition.”

The primary objectives set forth by the U.S. Army for the NGSW-AR was a weapon with the firepower and range of a machine gun, coupled with the precision and ergonomics of a rifle. The SIG SAUER NGSW-AR submission is an ultra-light, medium caliber machine gun with AR ergonomics, and chambered in 6.8mm hybrid ammunition. Features include quick detach magazines, side opening feed tray, increased available 1913 rail space for night vision and enablers, folding buttstock, and suppressor.

Additionally, the Prototype Project Opportunity Notice (PPON) requirements were inclusive of an NGSW-Rifle. The SIG SAUER NGSW-Rifle submission also chambered in 6.8mm hybrid, is lightweight and features a free-floating reinforced M-LOK™ handguard, side-charging handle, fully ambidextrous controls, folding buttstock, and suppressor.

“The U.S. Army challenged the industry to bring forward significant improvements to the legacy weapons. The SIG SAUER NGSW-AR is lighter in weight, with dramatically less recoil than that currently in service, while our carbine for the NGSW-Rifle submission is built on the foundation of SIG SAUER weapons in service with the premier fighting forces across the globe. Both weapons are designed with features that will increase the capabilities of the soldier,” commented Cohen. “The final component of the SIG SAUER Next-Generation Weapons System is our suppressor, which through exhaustively researched design enhancements, reduces harmful backflow and signature.”

As outlined in the recent award issued by the U.S. Army, SIG SAUER will deliver a complete SIG SAUER system inclusive of the SIG SAUER 6.8mm hybrid ammunition, lightweight machine gun, rifle, and suppressors.

“SIG SAUER has designed the most comprehensive solution to meet the requirements of the Next Generation Squad Weapons to enhance mission effectiveness. We are looking forward to partnering with the U.S. Army throughout this process and ensuring our soldiers are equipped for the demands of the modern battlefield,” concluded Cohen.

link
__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh

"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
JJ_BPK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 20:07   #6
35NCO
Guerrilla
 
35NCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: CONUS
Posts: 402
It's still disappointing. I want to know the next leap.

Also wish Jim Schatz was still here. He was doing good work on this stuff. RIP
35NCO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 11:12   #7
2018commo
Quiet Professional
 
2018commo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sirius Channel 23
Posts: 498
Ranges with SDZ's for 6.8...screw planning, just execute.
__________________
SFA D-7914

Jump Street Never Ends

“There is a road, no simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night, and if you go, no one may follow, that path is for your steps alone”

"Draw unto others as they have been drawn to you"
2018commo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:56.



Copyright 2004-2019 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies