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Rapid Application Tourniquet System (RATS)
Old 02-13-2018, 09:54   #1
JJ_BPK
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Rapid Application Tourniquet System (RATS)

This seems like an inexpensive(@ 12USD) solution for the PFA kit, glove box, tackle box, EDC heavy, ect...

What:

1)is your opinion of this tourniquet
2)what is a suggested alternate
3)in the xxx (hi-priced spread) worth it



https://www.refactortactical.com/pro...nt=39987847956

https://www.*******.com/watch?v=FzIXjG0I9EU
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:10   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
Seems to narrow to me but have not handled one. It is better than nothing and probably works.
In the video, he talks about getting a "2 inch" wrap, after several windings.
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Old 02-13-2018, 16:34   #3
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I know trainer/private security guy that carries these. I think it came down to form factor as it was easily stowable in a pocket or slid through belt loops. He carries these when he's not working. I've personally been able to get blood flow to stop in a classroom environment with these, but have no experience with them outside of a TCCC/TCCC class. The logic he mentioned was he was more likely to grab this than try to stuff a SOF-T or med kit in a pocket and it was better than a Swat-t rubber band.
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Old 02-13-2018, 19:01   #4
miclo18d
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A tourniquet is painful enough.

More painful the thinner it is.

That said if you don’t carry it, you won’t use it.

Consider width, but portability and use are factors too.
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Old 02-19-2018, 23:02   #5
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Lots of discussion on these regarding approval by TCCC. They are not currently approved, but there has also not been a review board on TQs in awhile.

I tried some in a LTT course a few months ago. I found that they slipped quite a bit and wrapping multiple times around non standard limbs (obvious fractures/avulsions/partial ampuations/etc...) was difficult. Every extremity with a RATS required an additional TQ within a few minutes.

They may be compact and lightweight, but if it doesn’t work then what’s the point?
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TOURNIQUET????
Old 02-21-2018, 12:55   #6
tom kelly
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TOURNIQUET????

Have 3 different makes: 1. RATS from REfactorial Good if you need to apply it to your self. Has a one-handed application, inexpensive,cost $16.24 2.C-A-T from Composite Resources..486 Lakeshore Parkway, Rock Hill,SC. 29730 This one is 1.5 inches wide difficult to apply to yourself. Cost @$20.00 3. RECON Medical. Best & most Expensive @$25.00 +$6.00 shipping. They all work for their intended purpose, TO STOP THE FLOW OF BLOOD FROM A MAJOR BLOOD VESSEL . I would suggest that anyone using a Tourniquet get proper training and to practice using it on yourself and someone else. BE PROFICIENT LEARN WHAT & HOW TO PERFORM EMERGENCY-CARE...NO OJT Exsanguination Time is @ 2 minutes.... Tom Kelly
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Old 02-21-2018, 13:57   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom kelly View Post
Have 3 different makes: 1. RATS from REfactorial Good if you need to apply it to your self. Has a one-handed application, inexpensive,cost $16.24 2.C-A-T from Composite Resources..486 Lakeshore Parkway, Rock Hill,SC. 29730 This one is 1.5 inches wide difficult to apply to yourself. Cost @$20.00 3. RECON Medical. Best & most Expensive @$25.00 +$6.00 shipping. They all work for their intended purpose, TO STOP THE FLOW OF BLOOD FROM A MAJOR BLOOD VESSEL . I would suggest that anyone using a Tourniquet get proper training and to practice using it on yourself and someone else. BE PROFICIENT LEARN WHAT & HOW TO PERFORM EMERGENCY-CARE...NO OJT Exsanguination Time is @ 2 minutes.... Tom Kelly
Thanks for the recommendation on Recon Medical - for once I'm in luck and they're on sale.... looks like excellent quality.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:14   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom kelly View Post
Have 3 different makes: 1. RATS from REfactorial Good if you need to apply it to your self. Has a one-handed application, inexpensive,cost $16.24 2.C-A-T from Composite Resources..486 Lakeshore Parkway, Rock Hill,SC. 29730 This one is 1.5 inches wide difficult to apply to yourself. Cost @$20.00 3. RECON Medical. Best & most Expensive @$25.00 +$6.00 shipping. They all work for their intended purpose, TO STOP THE FLOW OF BLOOD FROM A MAJOR BLOOD VESSEL . I would suggest that anyone using a Tourniquet get proper training and to practice using it on yourself and someone else. BE PROFICIENT LEARN WHAT & HOW TO PERFORM EMERGENCY-CARE...NO OJT Exsanguination Time is @ 2 minutes.... Tom Kelly
currently on Amazon Prime (2 pack for 30.97 USD, free s&h)

https://www.amazon.com/Recon-Medical...+Recon+Medical

Thanks Tom
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:22   #9
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Tom, I would have to respectfully disagree with a couple points. The RATS (for which RE Factor is a distributor) is pretty tough (for me, at least) to self-apply to an upper arm if the affected arm is intact and immobilized--you can quickly see this right now by trying to use your opposite hand to wrap any strap or cord around your upper arm while its hanging 'dead' (unless of course the lower part of your 'affected' arm is missing). If you can adduct your lower arm towards your upper arm, then the wrapping becomes much easier. At that point, you then have to focus on ensuring your wraps are tight enough to occlude arterial flow, there is relatively uniform constriction pressure across the wraps, and each of the wraps is nearly touching the previous wrap to ensure you avoid creating a ligature effect with any single wrap of the 1/2" wide band.

The CAT TQ is pretty easy to self-apply to upper arms and legs, if you set the TQ up 'pre-looped' ahead of time (which is really easy to do and quick to deploy). It only starts to get a little tricky if you have to un-thread the strap out of the single-pass buckle, wrap it around a limb, and then re-thread the strap through the buckle. While this situation is possible, its certainly not the norm.

The tourniquet being marketed by Recon Medical is an exact design rip off of the CAT Gen 7 TQ, with the exception of an added 'finger hole' near the end of the strap, and a metal windlass vs. the composite windlass on the CAT. I haven't been able to find any reference to where this product is made, but considering it's about half the cost of the CAT, I'm guessing its likely an overseas copy. It may be fine, made of quality materials and priced lower due to lower manufacturing costs, or it may be made with lower quality materials that could fail--save a buck, roll the dice. I have to wonder if CAT Resources is seeking legal action against Recon Medical.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:48   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Tom, I would have to respectfully disagree with a couple points. The RATS (for which RE Factor is a distributor) is pretty tough (for me, at least) to self-apply to an upper arm if the affected arm is intact and immobilized--you can quickly see this right now by trying to use your opposite hand to wrap any strap or cord around your upper arm while its hanging 'dead' (unless of course the lower part of your 'affected' arm is missing). If you can adduct your lower arm towards your upper arm, then the wrapping becomes much easier. At that point, you then have to focus on ensuring your wraps are tight enough to occlude arterial flow, there is relatively uniform constriction pressure across the wraps, and each of the wraps is nearly touching the previous wrap to ensure you avoid creating a ligature effect with any single wrap of the 1/2" wide band.

The CAT TQ is pretty easy to self-apply to upper arms and legs, if you set the TQ up 'pre-looped' ahead of time (which is really easy to do and quick to deploy). It only starts to get a little tricky if you have to un-thread the strap out of the single-pass buckle, wrap it around a limb, and then re-thread the strap through the buckle. While this situation is possible, its certainly not the norm.

I think this is hair splitting. I can apply either one of these TQs one handed. EACH has its specific challenges, but both can be applied by the individual at the end of the day. That's not just my sample of 1ea experience, but from watching a group of variously skilled people self apply each one successfully.

While self application is a very real possibility and should be practiced, the reality is that there is a higher chance that you will be applying a TQ to someone else who has been injured and therefore, the small differences mentioned are not mission stoppers IMO.

We seem to forget that at one time we taught TQs by using a drive on rag (cravat) and a tree branch/stick or other object that we were supposed to find in our environment as a means of applying the TQ.....and it generally worked when applied correctly.


Lastly, the RATS has an advantage that the others don't, in that it works on skinny/elderly people, children and even animals ( K9s ), something the standard TQs can have a hard time accomplishing because of their design/size.


Mission dictates ones equipment selection and each of the TQs mentioned are all able to accomplish the same results/ends, so choose the one that best fits your mission profile/circumstances. In some cases, I have seen guys carry a RATS on them or in their IFAK because of its size, but in the larger, dedicated med bag, have several of the larger/bulkier CATS available. Set your kit up in the manner that best suits your mission/circumstances.
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Old 02-23-2018, 20:01   #11
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Not looking to split hairs--just relating my own experience, and what I've seen other folks (not of the steely-eyed, barrel-chested freedom fighter variety) run into through a few civ classes.

If you have a good technique for self-applying a RATS to a truly immobile upper arm (or even an upper thigh, if its actually paralyzed and you can't 'cheat it up' a bit to pull the RATS under and up around it under tension), I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

Not trying to say the RATS is completely worthless, but from my perspective of civvie carrying concealed focused on self-defense/self-aid, I figure I'd be the guy shooting back, and hence the one probably taking the incoming bad guy fire; so, my first concern is being able to quickly and easily self-apply a TQ to a limb. I've had far more luck in training doing that with a CAT and SOFTT than a RATS or SWAT-T. That said, I still carry a SWAT-T in addition to a CAT as a secondary/multi-use item since its small and light, figuring I can use the SWAT-T on someone else if need be. A RAT TQ could probably fill that role as well. I just wouldn't carry it as a primary TQ for self-use unless it was a RAT or nothing.
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:16   #12
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From a civilian experience, classroom only, I've found the rats equally easy to apply without slipping around. It has to be staged with the loop prethreaded. It does take some effort to get tight loops wide enough to fully stop blood flow (by felt pulse as we didn't have stethoscope or other medical equipment available in the class I took). Once the first loop around the extremity is complete, additional loops seem to be easier to pull tighter and spread to 2 or 3 chord widths especially on arms. I was able to do this without cheating up, classroom environment so obviously only as much of a fully dead limb as I'm capable of pretending to have. I find cat and sof-t to slip more easily with sof-t taking the most effort to avoid slip. I don't have one otherwise I'd try again now.

What's really questionable about the rats to me is the company "TCCC" that approved it vs the board. It looks like the company was made just to approve it.
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:08   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom kelly View Post
Have 3 different makes: 1. RATS from REfactorial Good if you need to apply it to your self. Has a one-handed application, inexpensive,cost $16.24 2.C-A-T from Composite Resources..486 Lakeshore Parkway, Rock Hill,SC. 29730 This one is 1.5 inches wide difficult to apply to yourself. Cost @$20.00 3. RECON Medical. Best & most Expensive @$25.00 +$6.00 shipping. They all work for their intended purpose, TO STOP THE FLOW OF BLOOD FROM A MAJOR BLOOD VESSEL . I would suggest that anyone using a Tourniquet get proper training and to practice using it on yourself and someone else. BE PROFICIENT LEARN WHAT & HOW TO PERFORM EMERGENCY-CARE...NO OJT Exsanguination Time is @ 2 minutes.... Tom Kelly
Thanks, Bro
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:07   #14
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There is so much wrong with so many of these posts I don’t where to start...

Full disclosure, I work for the US distributor of the CAT, North American Rescue. That said, I have used quite a few different TQs operationally including the two of those mentioned here. The CAT was also the TQ that saved my life. That doesn’t mean I’m numb to its problems.

The considerables, in no specific order, when it comes to prehospital TQs are: it must be portable; it must occlude arterial blood flow reliably (meaning with every application); it must be applicable singlehanded under duress, meaning after loss of mental and physical dexterity; and it MUST be safe for use.

The Recon Medical TQ is a Chinese knockoff of the CAT and violates several patents Composite resources holds for Gen 3-7 CATs. The windless is metal but the rivet placed through it significantly weakens it to the point of failure, consistently. We have boxes of them that are sent to NAR with complaints from the idiots who buy them. It uses the same “style” triglide as the CAT but also made from a significantly weaker polymer than the CAT. It’s application mirrors that of the CAT negating the idea that it’s easiest to apply. If you want to risk your life over a couple dollars be my guest but tell your family not to send the complaint this way when it fails to function.

Of the items I note above, the RAT fails the safe test time and again. The pressure it exerts on the tissue underlying its application far exceeds the maximum allowable to be considered safe. This is due to the width of the shock cord used. Guys if we could get away with making a safe AND effective TQ using a more narrow band, thereby increasing the chances a COP would carry it both Composite Resources and TAC-Med Solutions would both be doing so. There is a reason Tac Med went from a 1” to a 1-1/2” wife band with their Gen-2 SOFTT. Regardless of how many “wraps” you get on the RAT, there will be some space between the wraps thus negating the idea that it’s wide enough to be safe. For those who still want to argue it’s ability to stop arterial blood flow I say this, I can stop arterial bleeding with a stick and piano wire but it doesn’t mean I should do so when there are safe alternatives that are as portable - there is no reasons to use this thing.

I won’t defend the CAT — the lives saved says more than I could. It beats out the SOFTT in CoTCCC and Independant studies in one area only, ease of application. Otherwise, there is little difference in the two.

TQs are too important to accept anecdotal info or classroom theory on. Educate yourself. http://https://watermark.silverchair...7YFxrSEKVpDBfw

Guys, if you don’t want to buy the CAT then please buy the SOFTT. I’d not carry or use the RAT and darned sure wouldn’t buy a knockoff made in China.
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Last edited by Surgicalcric; 03-06-2018 at 08:12.
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:46   #15
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Good gouge, Crip.

Thanks for the contribution.

TR
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