Old 04-28-2004, 11:32   #16
NousDefionsDoc
Quiet Professional
 
NousDefionsDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
Tools
Fire starter
Knife/Multi-tool
550 cord

Nice to have
Canteen
Signal mirror
Panel
Purification tablets

Priorities
STOP - I like that one as well
Shelter
Water
Food will move up the list Day 2-3

Essential tasks
Recon area - looking for best area for shelter, best area for signals, a pot to boil my water, a tarp or plastic, flora and fauna for food, etc.
Build the shelter before it gets dark
Prepare water for drinking
Set up my signal for the searchers
Start thinking about food - it may take 2-3 days
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

Still want to quit?
NousDefionsDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 12:12   #17
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,466
What is the rough rule of thumb for survival priorities?

5 minutes without O2
5 days without water
5 weeks without food

Agree about slipping the food procurement out on the spectrum, and with the lists of priorities so far.

Not going to freeze, but it is going to be chilly at night. Find a good sheltered area for the camp, not too far from the water or wood source.

I really miss the old M1 steel helmet when it comes to boiling water. Not advised for the K-Pot. You can use tabs, bleach, iodine, a filter, or boiling, some kits even include heavy aluminum foil for an expedient boiling container. Field recovered soda bottles or plastic bags will make good storage containers. Condoms can be used, but I would stick with sealed plain ones.

The best thing about survival training is sticking that little fact in the back of your brain that while it might suck, you really can do it, and do it well, if you had to.

The Zippo is good, I grew up with them, recall my Grandfather keeping several spare flints in the bottom of his, and occasionally filling it from a gas can or a Mason Jar, but it is a bit bulky compared to a Spark-Lite or BIC.

I am thinking about ordering a couple of the ETS Pocket Survival Kits, for the components, if nothing else:

Spark-Lite Firestarter - current U.S. military issue, waterproof, useable one-handed, over 1000 sparkings in tests

4 Spark-Lite Tinder-Quik - current U.S. military issue, waterproof, wax impregnated cotton tinder in zip-top plastic bag, each burns 2-3 minutes

Fox-40 Rescue Howler Survival Whistle - designed exclusively for this kit, triple frequency, exceeds U.S. Coast Guard and SOLAS specifications, bright yellow with dual mode lanyard hole

Rescue Flash Signal Mirror, 2 x 3 inches (5 x 7.6 cm) Lexan polycarbonate with mil-spec style retro-reflective aiming aid for one-handed use, instructions on back, protective cover to prevent scratches while stored in the kit, lanyard hole.

20mm Survival Compass - liquid damped with groove to accept an improvised lanyard ring

Duct Tape - 26 inches x 2 inches (66 x 5 cm), rolled around plastic mandrel, repairs, first aid, the ultimate repair and improvisation component, uses limited only by your imagination

Stainless Steel Utility Wire - 6 ft. of .020 inch (1.83 m x 0.5 mm) mil-spec grade, stronger than brass, won't get brittle in frigid cold, multiple uses

Braided Nylon Cord - 10 ft. (3 m) 150+ lb. (68+ kg) test, won't unravel, shelter building, repairs and much more

#69 Black Nylon Thread - 50 ft. (15.2 m), 10.5 lb. (4.8 kg) test, repairs, fishing line, light duty lashing and much more

Fishing Kit - 4 x medium Fish Hooks, 2 x Split Shot and 1 x Snap Swivel, in a clear plastic vial with cap.

Heavy Duty Sewing Needle - will penetrate heavy materials, easy to grip, large eye for easy threading

4 Safety Pins - repairs, secure items to prevent loss and much more

Heavy Duty Aluminum Foil - 3 sq. ft. (0.9 sq. m), make container to boil water, reflect fire heat and much more

#2 Pencil and Waterproof Notepaper - 2 pieces 2.125 x 3.667 inches (5.4 x 9.3 cm), leave notes, memory aid, keep log

#24 Scalpel Blade - stainless steel, in sealed foil packaging, more functional than a single-edged razor blade

Kit Specific Illustrated Survival Instructions - authored by Doug Ritter, 33 illustrations, on waterproof paper, detailed, easy to understand, practical information

Contents List - viewable through pouch back so anyone can see what's inside even if kit's owner can no longer assist, annotated, compliments Survival Instructions, can be used as tinder

Fresnel Lens Magnifier - 2 x 3 inches (5 x 7.6 cm), in protective sleeve, read small type in survival instructions if glasses lost, start fire using sun

Pocketsized Clear Vinyl Pouch - 4 x 5 inches (10.2 x 12.7 cm), 4 x 3.25 inches (10.2 x 8.3 cm) with top folded over, waterproof zip-top closure, lanyard hole, it really does fit in your pocket.

Total Weight: 3.9 oz (111 g)


Add a knife/machete/axe, a mini-flashlight, water purification, a minimal 1st aid kit, and a sharpener for the blade, we could be onto something.

Now what about you non-SF guys I see lurking in here. Have you ever been out camping for a few days? Got anything to add or ask?

Mr. Harsey, a knife/machete/axe recommendation for extended survival?

Thanks for the contributions guys, I knew we could count on you.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 12:25   #18
NousDefionsDoc
Quiet Professional
 
NousDefionsDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
What is the rough rule of thumb for survival priorities?

5 minutes without O2
5 days without water
5 weeks without food

LOL - you stuck me out here for 60 days with nothing else to do, I'm going to get as comfortable as I can. Besides, I don't like waiting until it becomes an emergency. Sometimes it can take weeks for those nets and snares to work. Roger the steel pot, good tool that one.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

Still want to quit?
NousDefionsDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 12:38   #19
Bill Harsey
Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
 
Bill Harsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,871
Any knife beats no knife at all. That's the greatest difference between knives. If I was in North American wooded lands I might consider a small axe, back pack size. Some machetes are too light for chopping down small trees but it can certainly be done. machetes come in many lengths and weights. I do not know what is currently on the market. Most game animals are difficult to open and make into chewable food without a knife. In north country we might get lucky and find a cougar or bear killed deer covered with sticks but I wouldn't want to have to depend on that. This could also result in some ownership issues. Rocks can be broken with other rocks for a crude edge that can get an animal open. Some areas may be devoid of any usable stone. I'll have a look around at machetes and see what's available. A stout machete can also do the work of a knife by choking up on the blade. I know that machetes can be used to build entire structures with furniture in some locations.
Bill Harsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 12:43   #20
Sacamuelas
JAWBREAKER
 
Sacamuelas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,898
I say drop these three..add 1 instead

Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper

1.Stainless Steel Utility Wire - 6 ft. of .020 inch (1.83 m x 0.5 mm) mil-spec grade, stronger than brass, won't get brittle in frigid cold, multiple uses

2.Braided Nylon Cord - 10 ft. (3 m) 150+ lb. (68+ kg) test, won't unravel, shelter building, repairs and much more

3.#69 Black Nylon Thread - 50 ft. (15.2 m), 10.5 lb. (4.8 kg) test, repairs, fishing line, light duty lashing and much more

***Fresnel Lens Magnifier - 2 x 3 inches (5 x 7.6 cm), in protective sleeve, read small type in survival instructions if glasses lost, start fire using sun

TR

I would suggest that a very small, yet lengthy spool of high test strength "spider wire" brand fishing line would perform every one of the tasks listed for the suggested items 1-3. It(100yrds or so) would also fit into the same size container as the small circular spools of dental floss( approx 1" diameter).

It is easy to tie firm knots, incredibly strong for its diameter, cheap, is made in dk. green matte finish, extremely water/weather/UV resistant. Thoughts?

As to the last item above, I think I will leave that one alone. LOL

Last edited by Sacamuelas; 04-28-2004 at 12:45.
Sacamuelas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 12:50   #21
QRQ 30
Quiet Professional
 
QRQ 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
Is that all.?
__________________
Whale

Pain and suffering are inevitable,
misery is optional.

http://tadahling.com/memoriesofaspecialforcessoldier/
QRQ 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:01   #22
Air.177
Quiet Professional
 
Air.177's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
Being an advocate of overkill and redundancy, I don't think that I can contribute much if anything to this Minimalist survival thread. It is however, Highly interesting. Thanks to all contributors.

Blake-Department of Redundancy Department
Air.177 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:23   #23
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,466
Re: I say drop these three..add 1 instead

Quote:
Originally posted by Sacamuelas
I would suggest that a very small, yet lengthy spool of high test strength "spider wire" brand fishing line would perform every one of the tasks listed for the suggested items 1-3. It(100yrds or so) would also fit into the same size container as the small circular spools of dental floss( approx 1" diameter).

It is easy to tie firm knots, incredibly strong for its diameter, cheap, is made in dk. green matte finish, extremely water/weather/UV resistant. Thoughts?

As to the last item above, I think I will leave that one alone. LOL
One of the best things about survival gear is items with multi-purpose capabilities, like the duct tape. Too bad there is no WD-40 in it.

I recently asked my wife to look for dental floss, wrapped for travel around a flat piece of cardboard for inclusion in a kit. She asked if dental hygiene was really that important in a survival situation. I told her that I could use it for that, or I could sew with it, to include emergency suturing, use it to make certain types of snares, tie small knots and lashings, weave into heavier cordage, use as fishing line, etc. She looked at me like I was crazy, and asked why I didn't just get the correct items which would work better for the job. I explained that the kit would be too big and heavy to be of much use, and that none of the purpose designed items would do all of the other jobs as well as the floss.

Spiderwire would not replace the wire for snares, it needs to be stiff, and able to be bent and recovered.

It also would not work well to replace braided nylon cord, where you need something of a larger diameter and strength. For example, you could tie the braided nylon to a tree and hang from it by your hands if you had to. I don't think you want to try that with Spider Wire, even if it was strong enough. I MIGHT replace it with 550 cord, if I could pack an equivalent lenght as tightly.

Having said all of that, I am intrigued, however, about replacing the thread with it. If woven into a larger diameter cord, the cotton thread could be used as a wick. If the Spider Wire could do everything else the thread could do, including sewing and suturing, it might be worth a swap. May have to get some to experiment with.

Thanks, Doc!

Some of the items in the kit could be dropped, if unnecessary.

Early man lived with just a sharp edge, and a fire maker, and made everything else from raw materials. Not sure I want to be that austere though, but again, it is good to know that it can be done, and how to do it.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:29   #24
Roguish Lawyer
Consigliere
 
Roguish Lawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,531
Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
Now what about you non-SF guys I see lurking in here. Have you ever been out camping for a few days? Got anything to add or ask?
Yes on camping. Nothing to add. Would be interested in more on the details on shelter and food (I think water already has been covered). Anyone want to talk about things like the many uses of 550 cord or how to catch fish without monofilament line and hook?
Roguish Lawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:30   #25
QRQ 30
Quiet Professional
 
QRQ 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Williamston, SC
Posts: 2,018
As long as we are going to be wusses and make a kit I stronglly recomment a "Space Blanket".
__________________
Whale

Pain and suffering are inevitable,
misery is optional.

http://tadahling.com/memoriesofaspecialforcessoldier/
QRQ 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:40   #26
Sacamuelas
JAWBREAKER
 
Sacamuelas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,898
Re: Re: I say drop these three..add 1 instead

Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
I recently asked my wife to look for dental floss, wrapped for travel around a flat piece of cardboard for inclusion in a kit.
TR
TR-
They make dental floss "credit cards" that hold fifty yards of floss. They are standard credit card dimensions, except it is four credit cards thick verses one. You might want to check into that. ALL the major dental supply/gadget companies sell them. I did a quick google and got this example...
http://gifts4exec.com/Item/CC-50.htm

Now, you modify it by changing out the floss with spider wire... instant survival thread in a handy little/storable package.

I am sure I have some of those floss packets around the office, I think I will go experiment a little.
Sacamuelas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:47   #27
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,466
Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Yes on camping. Nothing to add. Would be interested in more on the details on shelter and food (I think water already has been covered). Anyone want to talk about things like the many uses of 550 cord or how to catch fish without monofilament line and hook?
With 550 cord, you get a woven outer shell, like a kermantle rope, and multiple interior strands which are not woven. You burn the end and the inner strands are encased securely. Snip off the end, and a dozen or so threads are exposed which can be pulled out, cut off, and used for whatever purpose you need small cordage for. It is great as a unit for normal heavy cord applications, or the strands can be used for lashings, snares, nets, or whatever task you have at hand. The inner strands will even unravel into smaller strands, if needed. It has a couple of deficiencies, as it is nylon, it does not hold all knots well, and it will melt or burn at a fairly low exposure to heat.

Unless something else if found available, given no man made materials like a poncho or shelter half, initial shelter construction will almost certainly be a lean to, improved by further enclosure as time permits.

Food should be available from foraging, fishing, netting, snares, traps, or possibly slingshot, bow and arrow, or spear, depending on your access to materials, construction and application skills, and availability of game in your area. Laws of conservation must be considered though, expending large numbers of calories to obtain small sources of food is counter productive and should be avoided.

Fish can be netted, caught on manufactured, improvised, or homemade hooks (bone, wood, etc., line of twine, cord, snare wire, floss, etc.), trapped, shocked, stunned, clubbed, poisoned, grabbed, speared, etc.

Additional recommendations?

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:52   #28
lrd
Area Commander
 
lrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Yes on camping. Nothing to add. Would be interested in more on the details on shelter and food (I think water already has been covered). Anyone want to talk about things like the many uses of 550 cord or how to catch fish without monofilament line and hook?
This is how my husband and his brothers learned to fish from their uncle -- no line or hook needed.

I wouldn't recommend it, though.
lrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 13:54   #29
lrd
Area Commander
 
lrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
Question: if you are going to stay there until picked up, how important is it to know where you are? Is a compass important to have or not?
lrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2004, 14:04   #30
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,466
There are other ways to determine cardinal direction.

It was packed in the kit. As I stated, items could be added or deleted, as needed.

It would be much more important if moving.

It occurs to me that having a watch could be handy as well.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Survive Thread BMT (RIP) Special Forces Fieldcraft 4 04-28-2004 19:15



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:58.



Copyright 2004-2019 by Professional Soldiers
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies