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Old 02-05-2009, 02:25   #1
Atilla
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ROTC Summer training opportunities

Gents,

I wanted to get some opinions on summer training opportunities. I won't be going to LDAC until next summer so I have some pretty interesting opportunities this summer but I wanted to see what you gentlemen think in terms of how what I try for will help me and also if there are any ideas I haven't run across yet.

First of all I really wanted to do the JFKSWS PL program but as I was in Egypt this past semester I apparently missed the deadlines for application. I was kinda bummed about that cause I would have loved getting to be a G. I think I might still get a chance to do it next year as LDAC is only a month long (although you gents obviously know a lot more about it than I do so maybe I am just wishing in one hand and...in the other).

So this summer I am gonna try to knock out Airborne School. But I also might have another interesting interning opportunity to work at the Direct Action Resources Center. This is still in the baby stages of "it might happen" but I did want to find out if you gents think this would be of benefit to me to work at this private facility (as I understand it one of the Owners is a QP from 20th Group) and forego other military training opportunities (i.e. Air Assault, Mountain Warfare, Northern Warfare). From what I hear if this facility decides to use me this summer I will be exposed to some good training, will make me work hard, and it will give me a taste of some of the things I can expect as I continue down the road to 18A (maybe not as good as JFKSWS PL program but I don't have enough exposure to make that call which is why I am asking here) which is my main long term goal.

Do you gents recommend this over other summer training opportunities you can think of?
and
Are there any other options I am not thinking of that I should be?

Thanks for any help and I hope I posted this in the right place. As always just trying to increase my SA.

Sgt. Atilla
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:47   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
Gents,

I wanted to get some opinions on summer training opportunities. I won't be going to LDAC until next summer so I have some pretty interesting opportunities this summer but I wanted to see what you gentlemen think in terms of how what I try for will help me and also if there are any ideas I haven't run across yet.

First of all I really wanted to do the JFKSWS PL program but as I was in Egypt this past semester I apparently missed the deadlines for application. I was kinda bummed about that cause I would have loved getting to be a G. I think I might still get a chance to do it next year as LDAC is only a month long (although you gents obviously know a lot more about it than I do so maybe I am just wishing in one hand and...in the other).

So this summer I am gonna try to knock out Airborne School. But I also might have another interesting interning opportunity to work at the Direct Action Resources Center. This is still in the baby stages of "it might happen" but I did want to find out if you gents think this would be of benefit to me to work at this private facility (as I understand it one of the Owners is a QP from 20th Group) and forego other military training opportunities (i.e. Air Assault, Mountain Warfare, Northern Warfare). From what I hear if this facility decides to use me this summer I will be exposed to some good training, will make me work hard, and it will give me a taste of some of the things I can expect as I continue down the road to 18A (maybe not as good as JFKSWS PL program but I don't have enough exposure to make that call which is why I am asking here) which is my main long term goal.

Do you gents recommend this over other summer training opportunities you can think of?
and
Are there any other options I am not thinking of that I should be?

Thanks for any help and I hope I posted this in the right place. As always just trying to increase my SA.

Sgt. Atilla
Go to Ranger School.

Being a G can be fun, but will not be particularly helpful.

TR
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De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:48   #3
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TR,

It was my understanding that this option is not open to me until after I got to IOBC. I know that some of the USMA cadets are allowed to go but as far as I know I am not allowed to attend Ranger school at this point unless someone is misinforming me... Believe me sir I would love to be corrected, if you know something I don't.

Thanks,

Sgt. Atilla
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:18   #4
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IMO...take the BAC option...and be prepared to sweat.

Richard's $.02
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:18   #5
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Having done both BAC and the VTARNG Mountain Warfare School as a cadet, I'd recommend going either the MWS route or see about getting a Sapper School slot.

MWS is (or at least was...its been a while) a very professionally run school teaching an interesting subject--the military application of rock climbing and alpine operations. You'll also set yourself up to get through the lower mountaineering portion of Ranger School fairly easily.

Short of attending Ranger School, the Sapper Course may be the closest you'll get to working small unit tactics in a demanding environment as a cadet. It would serve as a decent taste of what to expect at RS (patrolling, OPORDS, SUT, etc.), plus you get to do target analysis and make things go boom. Oh yeah, you also might earn the coveted Sapper Tab.

If you end up commissioning infantry, you'll get a BAC slot either before or after IOBC, so you might as well try to broaden your training now while you have some unique options (and some choice) available.

BTW, USMA cadets haven't been able to attend Ranger School since 1991.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:50   #6
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Formal military training

Basic Airborne Course. You will be in the Army system, getting an Army qualification, and be treated like any other Soldier.

Cadet Troop Leadership Training, if available. Better than nothing.

Go to Annual Training with an Army Guard unit. You're in Austin, you can research what's available at the AG Headquarters at Camp Mabry (there's a 19th Group det or company headquarters, a Long Range Surveillance det, and a Rigger platoon on Mabry).

If you can afford the gas, shoot the Interservice Rifle Championships and go to the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio for the Small Arms Firing School and the M16 EIC Match. If you're good and/or lucky you may qualify for an Excellence-in-Competition Badge. If for no other reason you can strap-hang around the NCOs (Active, Guard, and Reserve) and get some trigger time. You can live in the barracks for cheap and you may be able to get a loaner rifle (at least while you're at the matches).

At the very least go to summer school and knock out some more credits (graduate with your class instead of with your buds).

Last edited by Sinister; 02-05-2009 at 12:54.
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Old 02-05-2009, 13:37   #7
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I don't know if the Sapper course is an option either, I would love to go to Sapper school. To train with the units over at Mabry I am under the impression that I have to be SMP. I do want to get BAC out of the way so I have one less thing to worry about after IOBC on the way to Ranger School.

What I am gathering is that you gents are subtly recommending against DARC?

I found a website for them here: http://www.darc1.com/
maybe someone can PM me and give me a straight up opinion?

I am open to trying to do MWS or Northern Warfare School. Not so keen on CTLT because I used to be a Marine SGT, a squad leader and a VC, and I did those things in combat. I am not trying to say I am too good as I know the name of the game for me right now is being humble (trust me some of these young studs have already run me into the dirt, difference is I have already learned how not to quit) but I am sure you gents can understand that I want to avoid as much Mickey Mouse stuff as possible.

I am going to check into the Sapper course to see if its the sort of thing that isn't offered unless asked about. Problem may be that technically I am still considered and MSII. I just started AROTC (three weeks ago) and I am finishing my Junior year this semester. As it is I have agreed to "extend" for another semester for the scholarship and for branch selection purposes (get as many points as I can). So instead of graduating Spring of 10 I'll be graduating Fall of 10. Next year I am doubling up my MSIII and MSIV classes in the Spring to make this happen and in the process getting a chance to squeeze in a third major. That all said because I am in some kind of weird "OFP" (which I am extremely grateful for being allowed to do) I may not be eligible to do something like Sapper this summer cause I am still an MSII, even though next year I'll be an MSIV.

Honestly if all I get to do is got to BAC I'll be a happy guy but I just want to maximize my possibilities and potential because I am hungry gents as I hope I get to prove to you someday on your ground. I have decided what I am doing with my life and it reaffirms to me what I knew when I was enlisted. I am a warrior and I will spend all my time trying to become the best one I can be. The profession of arms is where I belong and realizing that is making me a bit exuberant I know but I think that is a good thing if harnessed. Thanks for the help thus far and anymore input as always i greatly appreciated.

Sgt. Atilla
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Old 02-05-2009, 18:35   #8
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I found out today that Sapper is a possibility so now my question is should I do this DARC thing or the Sapper course?
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Old 02-05-2009, 21:13   #9
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What do you expect to get from DARC that would be of benefit to you after commissioning?

TR
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De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
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Old 02-05-2009, 21:28   #10
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TR sir,
I suppose I thought I could get some good small unit training. Lots of trigger time, lots of Direct Action training in urban environs. I know that this won't have a lot to do with being an Infantry PL but I think that since I can't do the JFKSWS PL thing thing this summer I wanted to find another way to work around some QP's and maybe learn a thing or two from them. I guess that is why I started the thread. To see if those who know could tell me if this place is legit and if I would get anything at all out of it. I have an ingrained distrust for contractors and as high speed as it seems I worry about being taught to do things in a different way than I should do them. Guys who went before said it was really great but none of them were priors or AD, there only experience has only ever been the cadet world so I don't know if I can trust that. I would love to go to DARC if it is worthwhile, and I would also love to go to the Sapper course as long as it doesn't mean I have to branch ENG.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:15   #11
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BAC = $ when you get a chance to go to Ranger School and an ASI for your 'budding' career. The proverbial 'pot' is a constant; whether you use it or not is up to you...use it or get the hell off so someone else can utilize it.

Richard's $.02
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Old 02-07-2009, 23:44   #12
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Lightbulb At the rate we're going...

With this economic situation presently upon us...I'd jump on anything too pay the bills.

Stay safe.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:09   #13
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Get a badge. Nobody likes a FOB (Fresh Off the Boat) "Slick Shirt" LT.
Show up at your unit wearing a shirt that talks for you. Demonstrate (without having to open your mouth) that you "cared enough to get the very best" training you could. Frankly, nobody is really going to care much about any "Big Whoop" stuff you got somewhere else. And when you start talking about it it won't come across the way you would like it to or even the way you would mean it.
You'll get all the experience you need when your NCO's think you need it and you'll get the experience they think you need. Your Commanders, Big Brother Branch, and Mother Army will watch out for your other training and "experience". Don't forget about your peers either. No one like the guy who "cut the line".
WPPA aside, The West Point experience DOES come to an end at commissioning. The day after, you are "just" a 2LT. (You will be viewed the same as ROTC . Day one of your new "2LT Reality" is the OCS guys have the advantage.
Lastly, pace yourself, 20 years is a loooong time
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Old 02-08-2009, 15:37   #14
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The time at DARC would be fun... but so would hanging out on the beach. So the question is what will benefit you the most in your progression to 18A? I got to do some work at T.E.E.S. before joining the Army. I promise you, every instructor/cadre could give a rat's-ass if you've been to some "high speed school" unless it's in the ATRRS listing. If anything it will put a bulls-eye on you as you'll be considered the guy who thinks he knows what he's talking about. There are plenty of "wanna-be's" that attend all sorts of good training.

At DARC you'll probably never be faced with something that may weed you out. You'll probably not PT every morning unless it's on your own. You'll not be required to do something that "really" sucks. There will be no gut-check. It's as hard or as easy as you want it to be. Rich (and schools such as his) are in the business to make money. It's a different world than most army schools.

That said- you show up at a unit with a Ranger tab - everyone knows there is some level of difficulty that you've taken on and passed. You'll learn things the "Army" way and that's what you'll need in IOBC, and many of the Phases of the Q-course. Sapper will give you more knowledge that is useful to the Q-Course than DARC. Airborne - at least you won't be a leg..

Again, the time at DARC would be fun but it will do little to nothing to help you one your way to 18A.
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Old 02-09-2009, 14:56   #15
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I have a couple of buddies go to the airborne.... not so much ranger or sapper although I also wish to prove you wrong; but as stated I believe that is an impossibility right now.

This summer taking credits and traveling to Sur Americana to do field school research.

Good luck on sapper summer or w/e you choose Atilla.
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