Old 03-21-2011, 12:38   #1
alfonzapayne
Asset
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: El Paso
Posts: 4
Not Selected!

Hello. An Armor CPT at my unit went to selection last November and completed training and was a non-select and was told not to try again. Of course he said he got 'fucked' on peers, however didn't care to elaborate other than saying he was black. My question is what could he have possibly done to finish training but not get selected as a CPT. And are officers targeted at selection, should we not finish first in every event or excel while we are there? I mean someone has to lead from the front, someone will always finish in the top 3 in every event. If its an officer whats wrong with that? Someone told me SF is not looking for that guy who finishes first in everything and has never failed at anything in life, because that guy will not know how to handle failure and has never had to struggle. It's the guy that fails and keeps trying and giving it 110% that they want. Im not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything, but if the peering system is anything like Ranger school then I'm f edit I had to give up bookoo MRE's in order not to get peered!

1. You need to address this board respectfully in all your post.

2. You need to frame your question and address them in the same manner.

3. Cascading question and disjointed thoughts are not appreciated, please consider to whom you are addressing and what response you hope to elicit.


Some one will be along shortly to correct your azimuth.
__________________
"Ranger That!"

Last edited by Penn; 03-21-2011 at 13:10.
alfonzapayne is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 12:46   #2
Defion69
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Overseas GE
Posts: 95
"Im not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything"

Yes you are. Weak thread.
Defion69 is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 12:51   #3
SF_BHT
Quiet Professional
 
SF_BHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sneaking back and forth across the Border
Posts: 6,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfonzapayne View Post
Hello. An Armor CPT at my unit went to selection last November and completed training and was a non-select and was told not to try again. Of course he said he got 'fucked' on peers, however didn't care to elaborate other than saying he was black. My question is what could he have possibly done to finish training but not get selected as a CPT. And are officers targeted at selection, should we not finish first in every event or excel while we are there? I mean someone has to lead from the front, someone will always finish in the top 3 in every event. If its an officer whats wrong with that? Someone told me SF is not looking for that guy who finishes first in everything and has never failed at anything in life, because that guy will not know how to handle failure and has never had to struggle. It's the guy that fails and keeps trying and giving it 110% that they want. Im not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything, but if the peering system is anything like Ranger school then I'm fucked, I had to give up bookoo MRE's in order not to get peered!
What I am getting from this post is you were not selected and looking for intel to try to go back? I may be wrong but from your post that is what I got.

I can tell you that being an officer is not causing you to be not selected in SFAS or passing Ranger school.

Just my 2 cents
SF_BHT is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 13:08   #4
Surgicalcric
Quiet Professional
 
Surgicalcric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
It is called Assessment and Selection for a reason...

...and there are plenty of guys who make it to day 24 only to be told they werent selected.

The CPT you are referring to didnt have what we are looking for plain and simple. Being a physical stud will not in itself guarantee being selected. There is more to SF than physical prowess. Aptitude to do this job (which is more than kicking in doors and shooting dudes in the face), intelligence, strong work ethic, ability to get along with peers in stressful situations, problem solving, etc... are all things we look for.

Peers play a large role in SFAS and the SFQC, as they should. The cadre cant be everywhere and see everything that all 300+ candidates do 24/7. Peers are to highlight the guy who is last to get up or first to sit down during movements or when work needs to be done, chow hounds, spot-light Rangers, etc. They can either make or break someone who may be struggling or highlight someone for the cadre to pay more attention to. Generally guys who arent team players (people who say I more than we) dont do well on peers, for obvious reasons.

And lastly, him being told Never To Return (NTR) had absolutely nothing to do with being black. It had everything to do with performance as as a soldier and an Officer in the US Army. If he was told not to try again there is more to the story than he is sharing about his experience.

Crip
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."

"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman

"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc

Last edited by Surgicalcric; 03-21-2011 at 13:11.
Surgicalcric is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 13:25   #5
JJ_BPK
Quiet Professional
 
JJ_BPK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NOVA
Posts: 10,077
Quote:
"Im not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything"

Quote:
Oh wow. Is it like a good ol' boy system, because no one ever leaves the dive team?

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...249#post382249
Is this a continuation of your stellar contributions to the PRE CDQC thread??



__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh

"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
JJ_BPK is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 13:36   #6
Pete
Quiet Professional
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 12,469
The Black Captain

Someone should tell the Black Captain that Blacks make it through SFAS, Captains make it through SFAS and even Black Captains make it through SFAS.

Now if he told you it was because he was Black then...............

Maybe when he looks himself in the mirror he needs to look a little deeper than his skin.
Pete is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 13:43   #7
Surgicalcric
Quiet Professional
 
Surgicalcric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
...Maybe when he looks himself in the mirror he needs to look a little deeper than his skin.
No maybe to it Brother.

____________

AP:

In the event we havent made ourselves clear, race, skin tone, ethnic background, etc have no bearing on being selected . The character of the man does.

You would do well to stop posting and do a lil reading here before you step on your dick again.

Crip
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."

"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman

"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc

Last edited by Surgicalcric; 03-21-2011 at 13:48.
Surgicalcric is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 13:57   #8
alfonzapayne
Asset
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: El Paso
Posts: 4
Roger that.
__________________
"Ranger That!"
alfonzapayne is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 14:02   #9
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfonzapayne View Post
Hello. An Armor CPT at my unit went to selection last November and completed training and was a non-select and was told not to try again. Of course he said he got 'fucked' on peers, however didn't care to elaborate other than saying he was black. My question is what could he have possibly done to finish training but not get selected as a CPT. And are officers targeted at selection, should we not finish first in every event or excel while we are there? I mean someone has to lead from the front, someone will always finish in the top 3 in every event. If its an officer whats wrong with that? Someone told me SF is not looking for that guy who finishes first in everything and has never failed at anything in life, because that guy will not know how to handle failure and has never had to struggle. It's the guy that fails and keeps trying and giving it 110% that they want. Im not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything, but if the peering system is anything like Ranger school then I'm f edit I had to give up bookoo MRE's in order not to get peered!

1. You need to address this board respectfully in all your post.

2. You need to frame your question and address them in the same manner.

3. Cascading question and disjointed thoughts are not appreciated, please consider to whom you are addressing and what response you hope to elicit.


Some one will be along shortly to correct your azimuth.
Everyone who fails has to rationalize their failure to their own satisfaction. The healthy ones figure out what they did wrong and take action to fix those issues, rededicating themselves to do better. Many, unfortunately, blame others for their failure, which pretty much validates their non-selection. That is the whole point of the selection process-to pick the best to lead the best.

I spent four years working with SFAS to ensure fairness, and I interviewed virtually every class looking for any signs of discrimination. I never found any, but did hear anectdotally that a non-select was bitching to another black soldier in PTs about how "The Man" was keeping black soldiers from being selected. Unfortunately, the black soldier he was complaining to was the SFAS Company Commander, and he challenged him to show examples of discrimination, which he could not.

Officers are examined in leadership positions, as they are the only SFQC grads who will be in leadership positions from their first day on the team. There is little room for a long learning curve, especially with us at war. The 18A does something stupid, someone pays a very real price.

Candidates are not relieved from the course solely because of poor peer performance, and all officers are/were boarded. The boards are looking for a person who may not excel in all areas, but is not seriously deficient in any areas. It sounds like your Captain has additional issues he has failed to mention. Peers generally identify people who have issues working with others or who have chips on their shoulders, and it sounds like that worked this time. Being able to work with others is much more important in SF than maxing your APFT.

No, officers will not always be in the first place at all events, and that goes for all branches, not just SF. There is always someone faster, stronger, smarter, etc. If you approach being an officer with the expectation that you are better than everyone else, your career in any branch will be brief, and it should be.

It would be rare for an officer to get a second shot at SFAS, due to Year Group and PCS/schooling issues and the fact that there is insufficent time to fix the deficiencies in time to return, be reevaluated, complete SFAS, and be assigned to a Team. Plus some people cannot be fixed, or refuse to acknowledge what their real problems are.

If you got peered at Ranger School, you probably have a problem that would show up at SFAS, unless you have accepted and fixed it. From your post, I would recommend that you should probably not apply for SFAS.

Just my .02, YMMV.

Best of luck.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 14:44   #10
alfonzapayne
Asset
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: El Paso
Posts: 4
Thank you Reaper.
__________________
"Ranger That!"
alfonzapayne is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 18:31   #11
Dragbag036
Quiet Professional
 
Dragbag036's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 547
Here we go again...Black...Black...black...blac...blah..blahh ...blahhh. Can I request from one of the Moderators to respectfully close this crap? Please, can you help a Brother out!
__________________
DB
Dragbag036 is offline  
Old 03-21-2011, 18:35   #12
Peregrino
Quiet Professional
 
Peregrino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,632
Anything for a brother!
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
Peregrino is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:57.



Copyright 2004-2019 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies