Old 01-23-2018, 16:02   #1
Hacksaw
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12 Strong

I'm sure one of the 595 guys is on this forum. I saw the movie and know there's always liberties with facts but how accurate was the movie? I am still not sure who the team sergeant was and I'm always skeptical when they show an ODA in action and the only guys making decisions are officers. Also, I mean no disrespect, I was on range 65 at Bragg while this mission was going on.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:47   #2
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I think one needs to realize,, IT'S HOLLYWOOD..

Everyone that I have read or talk to say:

1)It is O centric,, most blame the use of SEAL's as consultants, The NCO's are not factually represented. SF NCO's are different and they didn't show the complexities of a team.

2)The movie deviates from the book, which deviates from reality, It happens all the time,, BUT it's acceptably close to real..

here is one comparison:
http://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/12-strong/


Example:

Quote:
Did Mark Nutsch carry a piece of steel with him from the World Trade Center?

Not exactly. The 12 Strong movie has Chris Hemsworth's character (Mark Nutsch in real life) being given the candy-bar-sized piece of metal by Colonel Mulholland. In Doug Stanton's book Horse Soldiers, it was Colonel Max Bowers, portrayed by Rob Riggle, who brought a piece of steel with him from the World Trade Center to Afghanistan. Payback was certainly on the minds of some members of the team, while others focused primarily on the mission at hand. In the book, Bowers had planned to give the piece of metal to Afghan General Dostum and warlord Atta Muhammad Noor, if needed, to bind them in their common fight against the Taliban.

Later, several months after the Taliban fell, the special operations teams returned to Mazar-i-Sharif to bury the piece of the World Trade Center. They placed it in a body bag and lowered it into the ground. Images of them doing this can be seen below and in Alex Quade's short documentary Horse Soldiers of 9/11. (c video @ 6:30 point)
https://www.*******.com/watch?v=nvTSsMKfL2c
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Old 01-24-2018, 14:59   #3
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Baby steps. The SEALs are so far ahead of us in Hollywood propaganda anything is a win at this point. FFS the "A Team" with Liam Neeson, Bradley Cooper and Rampage Jackson became a love fest about Rangers, not SF.
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Old 01-24-2018, 15:43   #4
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Baby steps. The SEALs are so far ahead of us in Hollywood propaganda anything is a win at this point. FFS the "A Team" with Liam Neeson, Bradley Cooper and Rampage Jackson became a love fest about Rangers, not SF.
Not so sure that is a bad thing? Remember we're the Quiet Professionals.
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Old 01-24-2018, 16:03   #5
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Baby steps. The SEALs are so far ahead of us in Hollywood propaganda anything is a win at this point. FFS the "A Team" with Liam Neeson, Bradley Cooper and Rampage Jackson became a love fest about Rangers, not SF.
We're still in the hurt locker for all the Chuck Norris "Special Forces" movies.............
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Old 01-24-2018, 18:27   #6
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Hollyweird "Heroes"

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We're still in the hurt locker for all the Chuck Norris "Special Forces" movies.............
Let's not forget Sylvester Stallone who portrays the character John Rambo, A Vietnam Veteran Green Beret, who received The Medal of Honor for his service in Vietnam. Also Col. Sam Trautman "Richard Crenna the actor who saves Rambo.....Tom Kelly
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Old 01-24-2018, 18:35   #7
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Originally Posted by JJ_BPK View Post
I think one needs to realize,, IT'S HOLLYWOOD..

Everyone that I have read or talk to say:

2)The movie deviates from the book, which deviates from reality, It happens all the time,, BUT it's acceptably close to real..
Yep it's a depiction of Afghanistan and they rode horses. win!
The antenna falling off the rock and someone going to get it was also a good scene.
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Old 01-24-2018, 19:23   #8
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It was not a bad depiction of an ODA, it wasn't a bunch of muscle heads in smeadium Tee shirts so that's good. I was just disgusted with the main characters being officers. No idea who the TM SGT was and lets face it, the TM SGT is the center of gravity of an ODA. However, I agree, the quiet professional aspect is preferable, would just like to see an accurate portrayal of an ODA someday.
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:39   #9
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It was not a bad depiction of an ODA, it wasn't a bunch of muscle heads in smeadium Tee shirts so that's good. I was just disgusted with the main characters being officers. No idea who the TM SGT was and lets face it, the TM SGT is the center of gravity of an ODA. However, I agree, the quiet professional aspect is preferable, would just like to see an accurate portrayal of an ODA someday.
Agree, but with SEAL technical advisors what'd ya expect?
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:21   #10
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Agree, but with SEAL technical advisors what'd ya expect?
You have to understand where Officers stand in the Navy/Marine Corps...there is no NCO Corps in those services with the authority that NCO's have in the US Army and especially in SF.

I did not get this until I was CSM of a Joint Unit...even SEALs don't get our position.

They still have separate beach's at R&R Naval facilities...enlisted/Warrant/O's...you do not mix.

I often wondered why 'Gunny's run the Corps'....now why the hell would an E7 run the Corps? When a Marine makes E8 they move him from his primary MOS to a 1SG/supervisory position in another MOS...an Infantry 1SG in an Aviation unit.

Why, they say for 'crossbreeding' but the real reason is they don't want a 1SG with more knowledge than his CO...they want the 1SG to be simply an administrator and that is what he is reduced too....samo in the Navy.

The Gunny's run the 'tactical' or 'technical' elements because the 1SG is clueless about the nuts and bolts......he is a admin guy just like the CO wants.

Visiting a MC GO once with my Commander, also a GO....they were in the MC Go's office with the door open....I was with the MC SGM...
I walked into the office as I normally would....the MC SGM stopped at the threshold and waited for permission to enter.

I was freakin shocked....and embarresed for him.


BTW, I was on 595......about 40 years ago
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Old 01-25-2018, 11:52   #11
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...BTW, I was on 595......about 40 years ago
595 31 years ago.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:08   #12
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You have to understand where Officers stand in the Navy/Marine Corps...there is no NCO Corps in those services with the authority that NCO's have in the US Army and especially in SF.

I did not get this until I was CSM of a Joint Unit...even SEALs don't get our position.

They still have separate beach's at R&R Naval facilities...enlisted/Warrant/O's...you do not mix.

You should visit a Navy ship sometime and compare the enlisted galley with the officer wardroom. Utilitarian galley for the enlisted and proper plates, table clothes, silver for the officers.

I had no clue until I joined how segregated the enlisted were from officers. It really is an artifact of the old British royalty influence. They are treated as two totally different classes.
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Old 01-25-2018, 14:10   #13
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Originally Posted by PRB View Post
You have to understand where Officers stand in the Navy/Marine Corps...there is no NCO Corps in those services with the authority that NCO's have in the US Army and especially in SF.

I did not get this until I was CSM of a Joint Unit...even SEALs don't get our position.

They still have separate beach's at R&R Naval facilities...enlisted/Warrant/O's...you do not mix.

I often wondered why 'Gunny's run the Corps'....now why the hell would an E7 run the Corps? When a Marine makes E8 they move him from his primary MOS to a 1SG/supervisory position in another MOS...an Infantry 1SG in an Aviation unit.

Why, they say for 'crossbreeding' but the real reason is they don't want a 1SG with more knowledge than his CO...they want the 1SG to be simply an administrator and that is what he is reduced too....samo in the Navy.

The Gunny's run the 'tactical' or 'technical' elements because the 1SG is clueless about the nuts and bolts......he is a admin guy just like the CO wants.

Visiting a MC GO once with my Commander, also a GO....they were in the MC Go's office with the door open....I was with the MC SGM...
I walked into the office as I normally would....the MC SGM stopped at the threshold and waited for permission to enter.

I was freakin shocked....and embarresed for him.


BTW, I was on 595......about 40 years ago
PRB that is some great information regarding the difference in the services, my brother in law was an E9 in the Navy I am gonna ask him for his POV on this. I consider being part of this forum as continuing education, THANKS!!
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Old 01-25-2018, 14:26   #14
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Navy has/had more clubs than you could shake a stick at. EM Club, Acey Duecy(?) Club, PO Club and Chief's Club to name a few.

Mess Hall was segregated into EM section, PO section and Officer's section. The one time I was on a ship food was also served by rank.

Two times I went out on subs it was more relaxed - but the officers still had their own room - I think. Wasn't really paying that much attention.
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Old 01-25-2018, 15:29   #15
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Navy has/had more clubs than you could shake a stick at. EM Club, Acey Duecy(?) Club, PO Club and Chief's Club to name a few.

Mess Hall was segregated into EM section, PO section and Officer's section. The one time I was on a ship food was also served by rank.

Two times I went out on subs it was more relaxed - but the officers still had their own room - I think. Wasn't really paying that much attention
.


When we use the APSS Sealion in 69 they had O & EM mess. The cooks were contracted and Philipean. My understanding is they were working for Green Cards??

All the SF guys used the O mess. Food was outrageous, like a 5star. Probably had to do with the sub having two O6 skippers. It was one of the last trips before it was decommissioned.

We also use the O beach on Truman Annex for night compass & 2K swims.

Never use the KW NAS clubs,, we all went to a bar called the White Horse. on the corner of White St & Truman Ave.
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