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Old 05-02-2010, 07:47   #31
Axe
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Related to wells, in my area, if you want to learn about water, if your neighbors don't have wells, you talk to the health department person in charge of well permits, or you talk to the well drillers and surveyors. They can probably tell you with an amazing degree of accuracy what kind of challenge you will face on your property. Those folks have usually forgotten more about underground water than you will ever want to know. I live in a rural area though.

If you are in an urban area. I'd check with the public works or a geological or environmental firm to learn about where the water is. In any area that might have had industrial activity or does currently, I would check land parcels a mile or so around your location with the county register of deeds for well restrictions in your area due to groundwater contamination as well as checking with the health department before starting any well project.In areas that had industrial activity, even if that activity is long gone, the water can be nasty.

Don't forget to test the water. Remember that a standard drinking water test that health departments do for low cost does not check the water for industrial contaminants such as solvents. Testing for solvent and other chemical contamination can be done through private laboratories and is a fair bit more costly, but far better than drinking benzene. Test water quality early and often, just like Chicago voting.

Talking about USGS Maps reminded me of something.

If you are going to shelter in place, the USGS Topo maps and State/County watershed or standard maps will often show small creeks and streams that might provide water sources a lot closer than the ones you might have in mind.

I have a well, but it is at 90 feet and has a pressure tank on top of the casing that makes a hand pump not really feasible. I have planned around water storage and resupply from another location. I live within 4 miles of a lake and had always noted it as the likely water source I would use if needed. About a year ago, I had a friend tell me about a very small unnamed and unmarked stream that crossed the road I commute on. I had never noticed the stream, as it was small and really blended in, and was in a curved area of road that demands a driver's full attention. This stream was farther away from my house than the lake so it wasn't the best water source for me, but it got me looking.

Even though I have Topo maps for my immediate area. I got online to see what kind of info was available. I found the state of MI GIS Department has the USGS Topo maps available online for viewing. From the Topo maps, I found three different small streams, all of which cross roads, which are all closer than the lake I had originally identified as my water source of choice.

In the event of need, I now have cut the distance to water in half. The different sources I have found do not share common start points, so contamination of one source doesn't eliminate all of my choices.

I cross checked on Google Earth, and some of those small streams were visible, some were not.

Don't just rely on your own observations-whoever mapped the area probably spent a lot more time checking things out than you have the time to do.
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Old 05-02-2010, 22:41   #32
TF Kilo
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I'd also like some info on this - I've got family in AK and would like to have comms with them.
If you want to be able to make comms to alaska you'll want good positioning.. ie mountain top, and a mobile unit like an Yaesu 857D in a manpack mount, unless you want to have it rig mounted and drive up there.

Then you need to have your family equipped the same, and know how to use it.

That second part, the family.... is the huge rub. Most people, including our own families, are not going to invest the time and effort to be able to ensure that you can communicate under basically any circumstances.

For an easy handheld that can talk for a good ways just to be able to communicate, the Yaesu VX-7R or VX-8 are both good radios.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:48   #33
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Just ordered "Country Wisdom and Know-how". The Foxfire series looked very intriguing.

Went to the Yaesu website. Eyes glazed over. Felt like an 18E student looks with one of those damned morse code practice clickers in his hand.
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Old 05-03-2010, 20:50   #34
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Originally Posted by craigepo View Post
Just ordered "Country Wisdom and Know-how". The Foxfire series looked very intriguing.

Went to the Yaesu website. Eyes glazed over. Felt like an 18E student looks with one of those damned morse code practice clickers in his hand.
The Foxfire books are great, we've got nearly the whole set, my wife wanted them (man did I marry a good one ) She’s read most of them, I’ve not had the time as of yet, but they’re a good reference set.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:47   #35
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I have a plan.

Basically, it lays out what each member of my family has to do in the event of a disaster.

We are most likely going to shelter in place, unless evacuation is absolutely necessary for survival.

The list is prioritized, so that we accomplish the most important objectives first. That negates the requirement to have a plan for zero warning, an hour, six hours, etc. I can probably execute the entire plan in 12 hours or less. If I have three hours without dealing with panic buyers, we should be comfortable. It isn't about a scavenger hunt, really. The key is to have the essentials on hand before disaster strikes. Most of the remainder is things to do to prepare in and around the house anyway.

There are a couple of branches, depending on the nature of the disaster. Obviously, if a widfire is expected, you may not want to board up your windows. If a flood is expected, you do not need to clear debris from your yard and push back your vegetation. If it is a local emergency only, help should be coming much more quickly than if it is a regional or national catastrophe. If it is a major national disaster, you could be in for a long wait for help and need deeper preparations. If you wait till a few hours before the hurricane to try and buy a generator, prepare to be disappointed.

At a minimum, you would want to provide for your basic needs (not wants) for two weeks. That means water, food, shelter, fire, sanitation, meds, first aid, comms, defense, fuel, etc.

Does anyone else have either a prioritized list, or a time phased plan they would like to share?

TR
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Old 05-15-2010, 03:03   #36
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What to Do?

Quote:
Does anyone else have either a prioritized list, or a time phased plan they would like to share?

TR
Please, share if anyone has more and continue on with this threat. I am currently creating my plans, my bug out bag, and supplies based on the information in these threads. Hopefully mi familia will never need any of this but if we do, we will be far better prepared because all the knowledge shared here. We rode out Ike but and was ill prepared. In much better shape now.
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Old 05-16-2010, 21:26   #37
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Quote:
Does anyone else have either a prioritized list, or a time phased plan they would like to share?

TR
Used TR's comments as a starting point. Attached is my first cut/stab at a SIP Prioritized List. "Timed Phase Plan" is still in draft. This is a point of departure and something I absolutely expect to revise and revisit. Lots of room for "what ifs" and "hey, what abouts...?" IMO a survival plan, be it one to facilitate a bug out or a SIP, must never stop evolving, up to the point it is executed.

Anyway, for what it's worth this is mine. Your comments are welcome with greatest respect and thanks.


Prioritized List Shelter in Place.pdf
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Last edited by LarryW; 05-16-2010 at 21:37. Reason: I didn't mention training. Logistics will always bite you in the butt.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:49   #38
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I like the way you are thinking.

I believe that you are off to a good planning start.

TR
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:55   #39
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Phased Time Plan for SIP

Have attached first cut for a Phased Time Plan, or, a rough timeline to assist in the planning stage to SIP. This is just an opinion and would benefit from continued thought and revision.

I welcome your comments with respect and thanks.


Phased Time Plan for SIP.pdf
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:00   #40
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Items I Missed in Priorities List

I neglected (at least) making mention of alternative cooking systems in the priorities list. I should have included having a Coleman cookstove, or similar cooking system along with a case or two of fuel bottles. A Coleman stove can enable a person hold up in a SIP and cook meals, make coffee, etc. They also allow a person in that mode to continue preserving by smoking (via a stove top smoker) perishable meats, fishes, etc. One other thing I neglected to mention is to use the racks from the stove/refrigerator as drying racks for fruit, if one can arrange to have a good source of sunshine from a window.

Training is another area I failed to comment on, and training to execute a plan (not necessarily a full blown disaster scenario, but some aspects of the tasks) is a mistake.

A lot depends on the season when one is required to SIP. Very many variables exist that one needs to consider when developing a plan, regardless of SIP or bug out. The ones I've tried to articulate are just unique to my own planning, and hopefully provide food for thought to others.

When the crisis passes and civilization returns some will say they went too far and others not far enough. IMO, emergency plans are just like that. Not a lot of middle ground.
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:35   #41
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Good plan, Larry.

I would suggest that you also consider developing a rest plan so that not everyone crashes at the same time. No point in becoming incapable of clear thought because you ran too many days without sleep, or having no one awake because they all burned out.

Also, I would be extremely wary of candles. Far to easy to take a bad situation and make it much worse. Firefighters will tell you how many houses burn down from fires started by candles every year. You can pull a vehicle battery and run a few 12v. tail light or marker bulbs and recharge it the next day, run flashlights and electric lanterns off of rechargeables and put them on charge during the day, or consider some old fashioned kerosene lanterns. Excessive light and loud generators will attract a lot of attention when the lights are out, so you may not want to overdo it. Could be a good chance to bond with your neighbors, or to lure in some undesirables.

An inverter will allow you to run small AC loads from your car's charging system. The ones that plug into the lighter socket are convenient, but do not put out much power. The ones that connect to the battery are more powerful. This could be a backup for a small generator, but running a V-8 or V-6 auto is not a very efficient way to make electric power.

If you have a side burner on your grill, you already have a way to cook the basics without electricity. You can boil water, heat a pot of soup, or put a griddle on and make breakfast. Get an extra LP tank or two to keep on hand, since I always seem to run out in the middle of grilling, or better yet, if you have a larger LP tank for your home, get a $12 adaptor to connect your grill and you should be able to cook a lot of meals before running out.

I have seen people who would rehearse by turning off their power at the main service panel and the water at the meter on a Friday night, and practice home camping till Sunday afternoon. 48 hours without power and running water can teach you a lot about your needs. Even six hours could be a valuable learning experience in a benevolent environment. I would suggest keeping a pad and pencil handy for notes, because it will really make you think about how many things you take for granted that you will want to have before the next rehearsal.

One final thing to consider when planning and preparing is how many people you plan to put in your lifeboat. Too many, and you may not survive, too few, and you may regret not helping more. Like a lifeboat, you cannot save everyone, and you may not want to risk your own family trying to help the unprepared.

Anybody else have a plan?

TR
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Old 05-28-2010, 18:38   #42
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Worth a look...

I read a book around Christmastime last year called "Patriots: A Novel of Survival in the Coming Collapse" by James Wesley Rawles. It's basically a survival manual veiled by a fictional hypothetical socio-economic collapse.

The author was an MI Officer years back. He has got a lot of great stuff in there and it's worth a look. One of both his strengths and weaknesses is his commitment to preparedness in case of collapse. It's a strength because he has put so much thought into his planning. The guy's life hobby is preparing for a disaster. That could also be a weakness because his level of preparedness can be inaccessible at times to the reader. He's already spent tens of thousands of dollars on land and equipment, and has formed a tight group of fellow survivalists who train on the weekends in specific skill sets.

But, the information is there and you can take it or leave it.

Here are just a few of the points he brings up:

-Groups/Families carrying weapons that use the same ammo.

-Learning and equipping for the Canning process and making your own ammo.

-Doing homework on picking a good spot to shelter with consideration to geography, human presence, food/water etc.

-Each person responsible for bringing a certain skill set to the table, and the planning/packing behind it. (Sound familiar?)

-Using older-model trucks and equipment with commonly found interchangeable parts.

-ROE when encountering other survivors. Take them in? Rob them? What if you have to kill them? Something to think about and discuss.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-29-2010, 00:56   #43
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CP:

The Search button in the upper right hand corner of the forum is your friend.

Until you have read your way through most of the forums, you should probably search before posting.

TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

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Old 05-29-2010, 08:37   #44
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TR,

Roger, sir. Ran the title of the book and nothing popped up. Perhaps my search-fu is not up to snuff. Looking into it...

Very Respectfully,

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Old 05-29-2010, 08:41   #45
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TR,

Roger, sir. Ran the title of the book and nothing popped up. Perhaps my search-fu is not up to snuff. Looking into it...

Very Respectfully,

CP
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...=rawles&page=2

You have to pick a unique serach term, if you can.

Rawles is a pretty unique word.

TR
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