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Old 01-23-2012, 09:02   #1
Golf1echo
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Extreme Cold Weather Sleeping and Shelter

Working on a new project and looking for insights into extreme weather sleeping and shelter. Below is an image of the environment. Temperature range 20f.....-60f, elevation 2000'-20,000'
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:52   #2
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Make do or live in comfort?

You wanting to "make do" of live in comfort?

125 lbs of lightweight gear is still 125 lbs.

Good stove would be first on my list then lots of high calorie foods to make sure the interior furnace is well stocked prior to turning in.

That's Arctic type weather at the extreme edge. I'd check with some blogs, forums and such related to Mountain/Arctic expeditions on what they use.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:01   #3
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BBRRRR! That makes me cold just looking at your pic.


Ditto what Pete said.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:11   #4
Golf1echo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
You wanting to "make do" of live in comfort?

125 lbs of lightweight gear is still 125 lbs.

Good stove would be first on my list then lots of high calorie foods to make sure the interior furnace is well stocked prior to turning in.

That's Arctic type weather at the extreme edge. I'd check with some blogs, forums and such related to Mountain/Arctic expeditions on what they use.
Excellent points! We are developing pieces to support an Army teams effort to summit MT Mckinley ( Denali).

Added: That interior furnace has everything to do with what we are trying to do for them, it is the engine that drives our shelter system. It is what pushes the moisture out and away from the interior layers and the body, it is what heats the interior and drys the wet and frozen gear over night. What we are trying to do is find the right balance of how to retain that heat and control it as well as the moisture and the condensation. One way we look at it is like an onion and how do you make the gear you already have work best with the layers of the onion, how do you make the layers work best together and how does that integrate into the environment......... and find the right balance between weight and durability?
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File Type: jpg Mt Mckinley 1.jpg (8.4 KB, 128 views)
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Last edited by Golf1echo; 01-24-2012 at 06:12.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:11   #5
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I thought this article has some good points and seems to convey many of the things learned over the years.
http://chrisechterling.com/blog/2009...-sleep-system/

We are creating several zones of separated air space and looking to newer lighter materials to make up the construction. As each layer is employed it works together with the others to make up every increasing protection. We integrate both passive an active energies that enhance the physical construction if necessary. Weight precludes us from adding excess materials or extravagant detail so we work with voids ( air spaces ) and material performance.

As with many things this becomes as much about skill sets as equipment. Things like avalanches, crevasses, slopes, weather, hypoxia, hypothermia, etc...play critical rolls in surviving the environment. In talking with different mountaineers there is of course the old school vs the new school perspectives.

Basic information about the mountain.http://www.peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=271
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:34   #6
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It was not uncommon for Natick Labs to show up with various pieces of cold weather gear. Where some items were useful a majority of those items attempted to utilize the air and vapor barriers for increased warmth. Those attempts tended to create items that were not manageable because of their sheer size and limitation on compression (damaging loft and therefore the efficiency of the item). Providing a sleeping bag that would keep someone warm at -65 (ambient air temp) wasn't much help if you needed a wheelbarrow to carry it in just out of size. Likewise there were some boots offered that looked much like something Gene Simmons would wear onstage. Not the most practical.

Check out Natick labs...
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:03   #7
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Great advice, I have been a lurker for years on their sites. Once in a while I contact them about something specific but last week I spoke to both the Director of Shelters and the SOCOM Group there, am currently putting together presentations. Years ago I developed a testing program I call our MIST Program and have been able to place equipment in all of the SO Branches, I wish I had the frequent flyer miles our gear has. My philosophy is in order to develop relevant equipment for current use the end users better have a hand in its development. Hope they are interested to see their soldiers already putting our gear to good use.

Yesterday we received new thermal reflective material for use in our G1 Cold Weather Liners, performance went way beyond what I was expecting, now to quantify that warmth...
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

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"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart
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Old 01-31-2012, 14:50   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf1echo View Post
Excellent points! We are developing pieces to support an Army teams effort to summit MT Mckinley ( Denali).

Added: That interior furnace has everything to do with what we are trying to do for them, it is the engine that drives our shelter system. It is what pushes the moisture out and away from the interior layers and the body, it is what heats the interior and drys the wet and frozen gear over night. What we are trying to do is find the right balance of how to retain that heat and control it as well as the moisture and the condensation. One way we look at it is like an onion and how do you make the gear you already have work best with the layers of the onion, how do you make the layers work best together and how does that integrate into the environment......... and find the right balance between weight and durability?
I climbed, West Buttress route, Denali back in 1992 at the winter warfare school, assualt climber leaders course. We use all the basic issued Army cold WX gear from the Late 80's to early 90's. GORTEX was just coming out. That was the newset thing we had. Old Down Sleeping bags, ETC

We never summited because we had weather roll in, stopped at 18,100+. We lived in a snow cave for 33 hrs.
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Old 01-31-2012, 21:17   #9
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Check out Kifaru!!
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:56   #10
Golf1echo
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Originally Posted by MtnGoat View Post
I climbed, West Buttress route, Denali back in 1992 at the winter warfare school, assualt climber leaders course. We use all the basic issued Army cold WX gear from the Late 80's to early 90's. GORTEX was just coming out. That was the newset thing we had. Old Down Sleeping bags, ETC

We never summited because we had weather roll in, stopped at 18,100+. We lived in a snow cave for 33 hrs.
Same mountain, same group ( senior mountain instructors), just a few years later. From what I am told it gets steep after 17,000'. I'll bet that's a great memory. I thought I was the only one without Goretex during Winter Training back in the late 80's. I would be interested in anything you might think applies, and will trade cold beer for same.

Ambush Master....I want to be careful with my reply to someone named that.
I completely respect brand loyalty ! We like it when our equipment speaks for it's self, since that can't always happen I will say this: The difference between theirs and ours is evolution, years of fielding our equipment in the field with soldiers, listening to them and incorporating those inputs....that is critical to what we do. By nature our G1 Liners are warmer, lighter and more compressible, the same with our G1 Cold Weather Liners compared to theirs. I am unaware of anything that is the equivalent of our new G1 Thermal Liners. Our liners can work with our hard shells enabling users to configure hundreds of different shelters, hammocks and other. Did I mention they cost less? Maybe the best way to put it is that if someone gets one and doesn't think so they can return it ( if serviceable ) and get their money back. There is one problem....if your wife girlfriend or daughter get a hold of a liner, it's gone.
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

Essayons

By Dand

"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:26   #11
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The difference between theirs and ours is evolution, years of fielding our equipment in the field with soldiers, listening to them and incorporating those inputs....that is critical to what we do.
Mountainsmith was founded in 1979, and Patrick had years of hard use outdoor gear experience before starting the company. My simple math skills tell me therefore that the core of Kifaru's leadership and design team has well over 33 years of experience in the industry. I can also personally verify that they actively solicit and incorporate end user input on their products, including AD SF & SOF guys, along with big game hunters humping heavy loads in the backcountry and living in miserable weather.

Sometimes the characteristics we believe set us apart do just that, but not in the way we think.
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