Old 08-08-2013, 16:22   #16
JHD
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You've said way too much!! Get the hell back in you LANE and get out of
our way!!

Later
Martin
Very sorry, and apologies.. If he and any of you truly were interested in discussing and could do so legally, was trying to tell him to get a secure solution.
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Old 08-08-2013, 16:26   #17
The Reaper
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If you really wanted an answer, you could have defined the requirement better and explained why you want someone else to do design work for you/your company.

I am missing the purpose of a mag fed automatic rifle since the BAR, Bren, and RPK.

The mag feed on the SAW is a major problem.

Why not use a linked ammo feed system, and save the mag issues? I suspect that the links are lighter to boot.

You could dedicate the weight savings to a heavier barrel or a quick change one.

TR
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Old 08-08-2013, 16:26   #18
judcargile
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Please please please remove your DL image. This site is, I believe, on US soil. However, your server's location, can't truly be verified. That is the issue.

If you want to discuss this issue, and can do so without violating the regulations that Paragrouper mentioned, if your company offers a secure email program to both send and receive emails, that would be the way to go. Otherwise, you may be violating laws, rules, and regs that Paragrouper mentioned by discussing it here.

I considered the passport, but, that could leave me hanging out there, the DL is pretty vanilla and now that it is even expired, I would not recommend it for ID theft, my state does not require SS# on a DL; But, I am not up on the latest ways to assume a person's identity, so why not error on the side of caution.

Good Guy Letter.pdf

How about that? He can be contacted to vouch for me.


The regulation about transferring tech data to non US citizens without a DS-83, the end user certificate, BXA-711 or whatever the application to export approved by DOS is very real. However, the evidence of my citizenship is easily verifiable.

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view...ve_tab_profile


I am not clear as to why my being on a non US server would constitute export, it just is not an issue. If you were to disclose X, you are on a US server and have reason to believe that I am a US citizen. The AR platform is NOT in any way shape or form a sensitive item. I have stated that I do not and can not have another company's design. That is just tacky in my opinion. I know that LWRC will not even let an outside person even look inside their open-bolt and that tells me that there is a patent issue, like NO patent.

To cover my six on this, I do not need to spend the $250.00 for an export permit, I just need a letter from DOS that my consultation with a non US company of specific name and place is not in violation concerning item X, but, all of that falls on me. At any rate too many people here that are competitors in the industry have conveniently muddied the water on this issue and now it is a rotten egg. I have already gotten an assist and it is not an issue. My only motivation even since beginning a second thread on the subject was only for establishing credibility.
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Old 08-08-2013, 16:46   #19
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If you really wanted an answer, you could have defined the requirement better and explained why you want someone else to do design work for you/your company.

I am missing the purpose of a mag fed automatic rifle since the BAR, Bren, and RPK.

The mag feed on the SAW is a major problem.

Why not use a linked ammo feed system, and save the mag issues? I suspect that the links are lighter to boot.

You could dedicate the weight savings to a heavier barrel or a quick change one.

TR
Actually sir, I do not want anyone to design this and I am not exactly lost on the concept. To have someone design or lay everything out would take all of the fun out of it.

I will just ask the questions,

Do I have to modify the bolt carrier?

Do I want to look more at a design toward manipulating from the bolt stop/release or do I want to hold the bolt off in the opposite direction?

Would you say that Colt's basic open-bolt design can be refined into the later versions or is it significantly different?

That gives me pretty much all of the direction that I want. Is it all the direction that I need? Time will tell and DOING this, to me, is the most thrilling thing in the entire world!

We distribute the Aeres Shriker belt-fed upper and it has a quick change barrel; But, it fires from a closed bolt and I do not have faith in that. I have never fired it or anything else; But, to me the belt has an ass load of problems. As you know, the belt gets hung on everything, it pulls trash into the action and or breaks, the boxes are bulky, ect. Sure, you can throw down 200 rounds without reloading, it has an advantage over magazines and even drums that are as bulky as the boxes for the saw. If they Surefire HCM is or ever will be reliable, think of all of the ammo you can carry as opposed to a drum or belt-box! It would need a quick change barrel, certainly.

We manufacture AR platforms, it is not a contracted machine shop. IF we can get the open bolt into a working prototype, it is not going to cost very much. It is a challenge to even try and I am having a ball with this.
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Old 08-08-2013, 16:56   #20
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We distribute the Aeres Shriker belt-fed upper and it has a quick change barrel; But, it fires from a closed bolt and I do not have faith in that. I have never fired it or anything else; But, to me the belt has an ass load of problems. As you know, the belt gets hung on everything, it pulls trash into the action and or breaks, the boxes are bulky, ect. Sure, you can throw down 200 rounds without reloading, it has an advantage over magazines and even drums that are as bulky as the boxes for the saw. If they Surefire HCM is or ever will be reliable, think of all of the ammo you can carry as opposed to a drum or belt-box! It would need a quick change barrel, certainly.
Put a 200 round ammo box on the ground and stack seven 30 round mags next to it.

For an even more ridiculous comparison, put a couple of the SF 90 rounders next to the SAW pack.

Ammo feeding from a box or an assault pack does not, in fact, "get hung on everything."

People who carry ammo Pancho Villa style do not know what they are doing.

TR
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Old 08-08-2013, 17:55   #21
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Put a 200 round ammo box on the ground and stack seven 30 round mags next to it.

For an even more ridiculous comparison, put a couple of the SF 90 rounders next to it.

Ammo feeding from a box or an assault pack does not, in fact, "get hung on everything.

People who carry ammo Pancho Villa style do not know what they are doing.

TR
Noted sir, especially the mags to box comparison. I seem to remember that often the belt would get pulled from the box often and unintended, but, It has been almost twenty years since I have been in boots and obviously my three years in the Infantry do not quite equal that as the average experience of anyone in JSOC. In the early 90s, you had to be a Spc promoteable to be eligible for the selection course.

I actually was quite the fan of the SAW and as the opp for in the Infantry Skill Stakes in USAREUR, we hosted a lane that had a squad that had marched in from a live fire to an unoccupied and previously overrun position on top of a wooded hill. When they had replaced the sand bags on the dug in positions and put the stakes and wire in place, they would call us on the radio. It would be 4 or 5 of us coming up the hill, through the wire and basically commit suicide; Obviously, the whole point was to grade the squad who came in. We were just hosting the lane.

During the day as we were sitting around waiting on the next squad to show up, just mucking around, I noticed that there were 4 or 5 saws sitting on the ground, nobody wanted to carry the damn thing up the hill and had traded out for a rifle, so the SAWs had just unintentionally stacked up. We had a gung-ho Lt and talked him into, "Why not we just all carry a SAW up? They are elevated and dug in, what could it hurt to make these guys work for it? Besides, the French are up next! He went for it and that is what we did. By the time they detected us at the wire and both sides opened up, within just a few seconds, that hill was blaring the tones of every set of miles gear they had!

Maybe that is why I am so hung up on getting a cut above the regular battle rifle? As I had mentioned in my earlier post, these Asians are hard as nails and the Marines and NAVSOG (US trained) would make their US counterparts proud. But, I am the size of the average Asian and I know all too well what it is to carry the load requirement of a man twice my size. When shit has to get done, fair can not always make the train. The whole concept appeals to me and it appeals to my primary. If we can make this work, then I will work on proving how much better it is. The savings in cost and weight is a serious player; But, it is more worthwhile to service small units. I could easily triple the size of this post just by glossing over why government procurement is really not worth the trouble and 9 times out of 10, only the largest companies can even qualify to bid on contracts.

If in fact, the Surefire HCM is not quite the cat's ass as I have convinced myself after all, my personal enthusiasm for the open-bolt AR platform would be a little more than dampened. We have the facilities and manpower to actually do this, I just want the best understanding that I can get before we put man hours into it. If he sees he can trust me, then my original designs may just see the light of day. It will be an adventure, either way.

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Old 08-08-2013, 21:17   #22
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Ok first off, you are trying way to hard to prove you are legit.

Second point providing any technical data to any person or company outside the US (US citizen or not) is a violation of ITAR as well as export regulations, and even providing something as armorer training can be considered a volition. Working at SIG on the international sales group I have experience with this, we are even required to get an export license to share technical data with our German and Swiss companies.

Now more to the matter, an open bolt AR platform. Okay I can understand the desire to have the weapon blend in with the rest of the squad and such. However here are some errors of thought on this.

reliable feeding - the rate of fire on a AR is limited by the strength of magazine springs, in full auto fire the bolt can potentially cycle faster than the springs can feed the round, this could cause failure to feed. this is not an issue for belt fed
Also pertaining to the magazine, if something goes wrong with the mag, bad feed lips, gets dented or such, the ammo in it is unusable until you download it, with an ammo belt you break off the link and by pass the issue

ammo reloads - on a belt fed weapons system you can see your ammo and better id when you will need to reload, you also have the ability to link the next belt to the ammo belt currently in the gun. When your magazine runs dry, you don't know until the bolt locks back.

Barrel change - when in a support by fire, you are going to putting a lot of rounds down range, you are going to need to change barrels, not happening with an AR platform, even the weapon systems that are capable of a barrel change at the user level cannot do it while in a fire fight.

There are other issues with being able to sustain rates of fire, and being able to carry ammo, as well a disturbing ammo across a team or squad, no one wants to give up his mags. This has been looked at by a few different companies LWRC, FN and a few others and the biggest drawback is that you cannot keep this gun fed to be effective.

All that being said I have taken a look at the Thor Global Defense Group website and can see that you guys assemble guns and your posts here are a fishing trip to steer you in a direction to develop an open bolt AR platform

TR I respectfully request this gets put in the hall
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Old 08-08-2013, 21:28   #23
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JESUS CHRIST! Someone dump this turd!

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Old 08-08-2013, 21:53   #24
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Grrrr...
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Old 08-08-2013, 23:26   #25
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Ok first off, you are trying way to hard to prove you are legit.

Second point providing any technical data to any person or company outside the US (US citizen or not) is a violation of ITAR as well as export regulations, and even providing something as armorer training can be considered a volition. Working at SIG on the international sales group I have experience with this, we are even required to get an export license to share technical data with our German and Swiss companies.

Now more to the matter, an open bolt AR platform. Okay I can understand the desire to have the weapon blend in with the rest of the squad and such. However here are some errors of thought on this.

reliable feeding - the rate of fire on a AR is limited by the strength of magazine springs, in full auto fire the bolt can potentially cycle faster than the springs can feed the round, this could cause failure to feed. this is not an issue for belt fed
Also pertaining to the magazine, if something goes wrong with the mag, bad feed lips, gets dented or such, the ammo in it is unusable until you download it, with an ammo belt you break off the link and by pass the issue

ammo reloads - on a belt fed weapons system you can see your ammo and better id when you will need to reload, you also have the ability to link the next belt to the ammo belt currently in the gun. When your magazine runs dry, you don't know until the bolt locks back.

Barrel change - when in a support by fire, you are going to putting a lot of rounds down range, you are going to need to change barrels, not happening with an AR platform, even the weapon systems that are capable of a barrel change at the user level cannot do it while in a fire fight.

There are other issues with being able to sustain rates of fire, and being able to carry ammo, as well a disturbing ammo across a team or squad, no one wants to give up his mags. This has been looked at by a few different companies LWRC, FN and a few others and the biggest drawback is that you cannot keep this gun fed to be effective.

All that being said I have taken a look at the Thor Global Defense Group website and can see that you guys assemble guns and your posts here are a fishing trip to steer you in a direction to develop an open bolt AR platform

TR I respectfully request this gets put in the hall
Excellent points made; However, the point about THOR having anything to do with an open-bolt AR is absolutely not true. THOR's sales are mostly civilian and open-bolts are not permitted in civilian, semi model only, it makes no difference We have a belt-fed upper that we distribute and it is made to do a barrel swap, quick changed on the spot. I will be sure and get approval from DOS before I present anything here on the volcano. If you guys will give me 24 to post the text of the ITAR before you throw this out in the hall, I would appreciate it. I would like to confirm or disprove the theories to whichever end it leads.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:27   #26
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We are an ITAR compliant company sir and I am a US citizen on a US server. I think that you would concur that for a US citizen transmitting on a US server and not in contact with someone on a watch list (hmmm, that could be ME! LOL!!) I am out of bounds for even NSA. The point being that If I were to transmit the tech drawing or equiv to a non US citizen without an approved export permit, that would be problematic. for anyone to discuss the issue here with me is NOT export and neither would a transmission to a Knesek Group email address as it is obviously on a US server, Thank You.
I'm not going to debate US export law with you, particularly when you post crap such as that above. My caution was for the benefit of the others on this forum--not you.

Maybe one day you will realize just how dense you are.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:34   #27
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