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Old 08-02-2018, 21:42   #1
Airbornelawyer
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How would you translate this?

What would be an idiomatic English version of this? "Live winning or die killing" doesn't quite sound right to me.
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Old 08-03-2018, 03:17   #2
(1VB)compforce
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer View Post
What would be an idiomatic English version of this? "Live winning or die killing" doesn't quite sound right to me.
never mind... my Spanish sucks...lol

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Old 08-03-2018, 04:48   #3
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Ganar is to win or earn - ‘win the lottery’ ‘win soccer game’

Vencer is to win a fight, overcome a difficult problem, or conquer.



I would translate it as: live overcoming or die trying (fighting)

It is idiomatic.
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:12   #4
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Old 08-03-2018, 13:43   #5
Airbornelawyer
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Originally Posted by miclo18d View Post
Ganar is to win or earn - ‘win the lottery’ ‘win soccer game’

Vencer is to win a fight, overcome a difficult problem, or conquer.



I would translate it as: live overcoming or die trying (fighting)

It is idiomatic.
Ganar is related to gagner in French and ultimately "gain" in English (itself from Middle French). The French 1er RPIMa, descended from the French SAS of WW2, uses the motto "Qui ose, gagne" as a translation of "Who dares, wins". We had a discussion many years ago on Socnet about how the English "win" had also lost much of its broader meaning and become limited to winning a prize or a game when discussing why "Medal of Honor winner" no longer sounded like an appropriate phrase.

The Spanish phrase here seems similar to the Latin motto "aut vincere aut mori", "either to conquer/vanquish, or to die". But the "morir matando" seem to add the notion of not just dying, but going down fighting.
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Old 08-03-2018, 14:03   #6
SouthernDZ
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"Live Defeating or Die Killing" If you use Latin instead of Spanish.
(agreed, it's way open to interpretation).

Last edited by SouthernDZ; 08-03-2018 at 14:10.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:14   #7
miclo18d
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Originally Posted by Airbornelawyer View Post
Ganar is related to gagner in French and ultimately "gain" in English (itself from Middle French). The French 1er RPIMa, descended from the French SAS of WW2, uses the motto "Qui ose, gagne" as a translation of "Who dares, wins". We had a discussion many years ago on Socnet about how the English "win" had also lost much of its broader meaning and become limited to winning a prize or a game when discussing why "Medal of Honor winner" no longer sounded like an appropriate phrase.

The Spanish phrase here seems similar to the Latin motto "aut vincere aut mori", "either to conquer/vanquish, or to die". But the "morir matando" seem to add the notion of not just dying, but going down fighting.
This is very much where I was trying to go. My fingers are never able to keep up with what I’m thinking.
What I failed to explain was that ganar means to win, but also to earn like pay. Yo gané ayer...... I got paid yesterday. Los Houston Astros ganaron El Serie del Mundo... The Houston Astros won The World Series.

I added that to show that ganar and vencer were different form of “win”

You could also equivocate it to the phrase from Shawshank Redemption, “Get busy livin’ or get busy dyin.”

Southern’s translation is probably most accurate.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:08   #8
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Live by winning or die while killing.
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