Old 02-03-2010, 23:12   #16
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Old 02-03-2010, 23:19   #17
HowardCohodas
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That would have been a deal breaker.

TR
That was then, this is now.

It is what it is.
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Old 02-03-2010, 23:28   #18
TF Kilo
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On the topic of preparedness, but slightly different, consider this.

After you prepare for a fire, tornado, etc., and have your drills down, think about what you need to do in the event of an intruder (or multiples) in your home.

What is your drill?

Forced entry:

SLLS first off, ID the entry point. They will either be coming in the front or back door. Back door will most likely be shattering glass, as it's a sun porch. Front door will result in screen door then front door breach. From inside of our bedroom we can have eyes on the stairwell down to the first floor (entry floor) as well as visually check the second bedroom's security (pistol lanyard secures it to keep the mutt and cat out since the door doesn't latch)

Call local dispatch directly, avoiding 911 because of the time-waste up here where you go to a primary operator who then routes you to someone who actually can send response your way. 2 minutes of time saved by that. ID our location, intruder in the home, unknown or probable count, we are armed, need troopers here yesterday.

There's a rather bright nightlight in the landing in such a position that it is incapable of silouetting anyone on the 2nd floor to anyone coming up the stairs or telegraphing via shadow downstairs. It does illuminate VERY well and make our bedroom a complete blind spot for anyone coming up the stairs. Tactical advantage by not having to have taclights deployed until final confirmation and order to stop, unless armed... if they're armed.....

Once we've established that the immediate area is secure and that we don't have any intruders on the 2nd floor, I flow out first, covering the stairwell, wife right behind me clearing bathroom and laundry area. Then the dog gets released from her kennel and the wife takes control of her since I'm running with the AR covering the stairwell from above/behind. Hard point there until troopers arrive, we have positive confirmation they are on scene by the dispatcher, and that they have cleared the first floor, at which point we will come downstairs.

Disturbance but no entry: Clear the top floor, get the dog out of the kennel, then send her out. Clear down behind her to the point of ruckus and take appropriate action at that point. There are few red zones in our house and we have practiced clearing this house to the point that it's pretty much muscle memory.

I most likely will have sweatpants and slippers on, the wife her sleeping clothes.




Who else is in the home and what are their responsibilities?

Wife, child eventually. Wife's #2 with specific areas of responsibility within our home defense plan, the (in 10 weeks)infant is an infant. Nothing will harm my child.

How do you protect them?

aforementioned plan, once we have the kid we'll probably adjust our investigation plan to simply holding hard and waiting a long 10 minutes for troopers to arrive to figure out what is going on, and at least get an exterior inspection of the home to determine if there WAS entry to the house, and work it from there..

Can your spouse use a firearm to hold a door or hallway/defend herself?

Yes, I have taught her how to room clear as part of a team, she's more capable than some grunts I've met.

How will you notify your family that there is an intruder and to initiate the reaction plan?

We'll be home, in bed together since the wife works nights. The reaction plan goes into operation for anything out of the ordinary, ordinary being silence. People call us before they come visit, we're on a dead end dirt road. We don't get random visitors.

Do you have near and far rally points?

Breaking contact isn't an option, we cannot safely exit the second story sleeping area and to be honest, if an oh-shit situation happened and we were downstairs it'd end up being a react to contact drill if the home's perimeter was breached.

Do you have a signal for the family to flee the house for the rally point?

n/a

Do you have a trusted neighbor who will quickly let you/your family in in the middle of the night and protect them?

Not planned, breaking contact due to a threat is a bad idea/option due to the layout of the house.

What gear would you need to protect yourself, defend your home, and ensure a positive outcome for you and yours?

AR-15, .45 pistol, shotgun depending

Where is it now?

AR-15 is upstairs leaning on the wall, shotgun on the same wall, both my side of the bed. Expert is in the wife's dresser.

How will you carry it?

Pistols are condition one in this house, I always have mine on or basically right in front of me.
Shotgun is on fire, hammer dropped on empty chamber, slide slack. Rack and go.
AR is aircraft loaded, on safe. Rack and go.


How long does it take you to gather and don it?

About 4 seconds at worst

How long does it take you to identify that there is an intruder, initiate your drill, and be ready to engage?

6 seconds or less to 2 barrels covering the bedroom entrance, things go a bit more dynamic after that.

My best time booting an unlocked door and scooting upstairs was 10 seconds, that's not adding in the fact that the door is reinforced as best as I can, the door is in a crappy position to effectively kick due to our arctic entry(I had to get in once before that way) and that they'd have to get through our semi-solid screen door which would add at least 3 seconds on a good day.


Just a few random thoughts since I was recently asked if I had a plan. Admittedly, this is likely a low-probability event, but the consequences of being unprepared are huge.

Anyone want to join in?

TR
There you go.

And to add, hard pointing on the stairs provides the most location-dependant safe backstop for expended non-meat-bullettrapped rounds. It's shooting down at a 45 degree angle or so at a completely open area with an individual standing on the second landing for our 3 turn stairs coming up to the 2nd story.

The front door opens in such a manner that it actually provides an immediate barrier to anyone that wanted to directly head upstairs, slowing them down.

Last edited by TF Kilo; 02-03-2010 at 23:31.
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Old 02-03-2010, 23:37   #19
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I guess I can toss in that illegal entry of an occupied building in this state is 2nd degree burglary and under the criminal law use of force statutes, a burglary is cause for stopping with all means of force available. There is no duty to retreat inside of a building.

We also have medical supplies, and a plethora of flexcuffs for restraint/care if necessary. If they run they'll just end up meeting the en-route troopers and their handheld thermals in their cars when they start the manhunt. Most likely N911AA will also get dispatched from anchorage, and I know the pilot will be making sure the manhunt is successful with his FLIR as well. Semi-advantage of a pseudo-rural area.
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Old 02-03-2010, 23:45   #20
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This is of great concern to me as a wife of a soldier who is gone a lot. I've gotten good suggestions from you all before, and I've implemented a lot of them -
  • cell phone by bed
  • monitored alarm system
  • loud beeping whenever doors are opened
  • non-lethal weapons in my room... sort of

I'm not comfortable with my ability to shoot a gun, though this is high on our priority list to rectify. For now, I have Surefire flashlights in my car, bedside table and kitchen. I've also got two Hideaway knives that are with me or near me always.

This past summer I decided it was time to get a dog for a number of reasons, not the least of which being home security. Our Great Dane isn't a guard dog, but she looks and sounds quite imposing. She also can hear when the back gate is opened and has a nice loud bark.

One of my biggest concerns is my kids. We aren't in the biggest house ever, but I very frequently play through how, if an intruder were to get in the house, I could get my kids all in one room. We are in three separate rooms that are separated by a hall/landing area. One of my kids might wake-up if I called for them, but two of them can sleep through earthquakes. I'm not sure how I could logistically work getting us all together and out of the house without running headlong in to the intruder.

Ideas?
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Old 02-04-2010, 00:19   #21
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Next question---Living in a very remote area, what would be a good STANO-esque device for the ground outside the house(nearest neighbor 1/2 mile away, I own 230 acre farm)? When I was a kid, farmers who didn't want people sneaking into their fishing ponds would buy a couple of jackasses and turn them loose in the pasture. The jackasses would bray like crazy if anybody came around, day or night. I'm wondering if this would be both more effective and cheaper than electronics.

w.
Geese are unbelievably territorial. They use them for security on English farms.
Every been chased or pecked by a goose? Nasty critters. Disturbed at night, they are both vocal and mean. Not to mention they make a great dinner.
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Old 02-04-2010, 00:30   #22
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grab my soon-to-be shotgun (I just got my firearm license and have been researching my first firearm - a Remington 870 - which I will be purchasing in a few weeks)
How glad I am to live in Arizona!

I have a Mossberg 500 bedside. (I couldn't afford an 870 back in the day.) I sleep upstairs, with a bend in the stairs. There is a deadbolt on the front door, and back door...only entry other than windows. Other things, as mentioned, have been instituted. One thing has not - my SO is not a "weapons" person. However, she is bright (or I would not be with her) and educable. She has accepted the shotgun, and from her rural uprbringing, even brought forth a .32 revolver!

Delay, deny! Count on 911 for nothing more than the "tagging of your toe"! It is up to you. Period.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:15   #23
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This is of great concern to me as a wife of a soldier who is gone a lot. I've gotten good suggestions from you all before, and I've implemented a lot of them -
]

This past summer I decided it was time to get a dog for a number of reasons, not the least of which being home security. Our Great Dane isn't a guard dog, but she looks and sounds quite imposing. She also can hear when the back gate is opened and has a nice loud bark.
I lived, about ten yrs ago, in a group of Townhomes. Of the 25 homes, only three were not buguralized during a 3 month period. ALL of the townhouses not broken into had dogs. Intruders have no idea whether a dog will bite or not.


One of my biggest concerns is my kids. Ideas?[/QUOTE]

You have them trained how to call 911? Rather than trying to get them to your room, look where they can hide in thier room, back of a closet, under the bed, that sort of thing.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:14   #24
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and while I do not have any children (yet) leaving an unlocked loaded firearm in the corner of a room does not sit well with me. It just seems like an accident waiting to happen and is far more likely to accidently hurt/kill a 'good guy' rather than a 'bad guy'.

Why do you posess a defensive tool then(shotgun)?
Nothing will happen with a loaded shotgun unless you touch it.


Back to the break in . . . with the call made, I would approach my stairs and yell down that I know someone is there and that the police have been called.
I would also inform the intruder(s) that I am armed and would procede to cock my shotgun. Hopefully this would scare away the intruder.
There are so many things wrong with this plan.

Giving away your position by voice. You had the upper hand until you said something. Approaching the intruder so that he can hear you. Probability for being shot increases. You are now walking slower and probably trying to see him, so that you may speak. Telling him your armed just gave him a reason too shoot you.
Firearms are not to scare anybody, they are a tool for a specific use. i.e. don't draw unless you're going to shoot. Why?
If you view guns as intimidators, you won't have the drive to pull the trigger in the seconds it takes to react before you're shot at.
Your mind will be racing about the consequences and everything else and fail to act. Then it will be too late.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Longstreet View Post
Should it not work, given the layout of my stairs, if the intruder was to try to walk up them, I could fire a warning in safety and retreat back to my room if the intruder continued. From here I would again lie down perpendicuar to the door with her beside me.
jaYson
You just wasted ammo with that warning shot, giving him time to get cover and think about how he will assault the stairs and murder you.

A better idea is to keep a loaded shotgun in your room.
Know how to find it in the dark. It would be better to have it already chambered so that the intruder dosen't hear the loud chambering "cocking".
Use the element of suprise and you being on the second floor to get the jump on him. A weapon light is gold in situation like this. Don't storm around though with your hand on the pressure switch. A shotgun light is a lighthouse and represents a huge target until you get him in the eyes.

Longstreet, I'm proud that you decided to do the right thing and protect your life and your girlfriend's life by buying a gun. I know in Canada guns are taboo.
I guess it's because of the French influence.

It would be interesting to know if the QPs here have a gun in each room hidden in the event of an emergency.

Some may think I am a bit cautious, but in college I carried around a 3day assualt pack as a backpack with an extra change of clothes, knives, and water bottles just in case a natural disaster/SHTF struck. It didn't hurt and I learned to be prepared.

TR and Richard have great ideas. Having a Medkit is amazing advise. TF Kilo like yours also. I love this thread.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:26   #25
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It is bizarre that we are discussing this now.
An acquaintance had a home invasion in an affluent suburb here about three weeks ago. He keeps a Sig handy, and was able to repel all boarders (four of them).
Now he keeps an AR close by.
Great topic.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:46   #26
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Geese are unbelievably territorial. They use them for security on English farms.
Every been chased or pecked by a goose? Nasty critters. Disturbed at night, they are both vocal and mean. Not to mention they make a great dinner.
Until I was 9 my parents lived in the farmhouse with his my Dad's parents and one of his brothers. One year my Uncle decided to add geese to the stock of animals we raised for food and sale. That 100 or so geese we started with were never replaced.

Noisy, territorial and mean does not even come close to my memory of these critters. Years later, when my Grandparents lived there alone they were subject to constant middle-of-the-night robberies of the above-ground fuel tank. It never occurred to me until your post that geese might have been a welcome layer of protection.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:57   #27
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My plan is still in evolution.

Since I have re-enlisted in the NG, my wife is now at home alone for longer and more frequent periods. Last year I bought a new M-4gery (RRA, and thanks to the members of the board for advice given). I had already taught her to shoot an AR-15 with good accuracy (she can shoot better than most privates, for sure), but it had been awhile since she had practiced. I took her to the range with my H&K USP.40, a S&W .357 4" (loaded with .38 special), my Mossberg 590, and the new M4. I let her shoot all four, and pick which one she felt most comfortable with. In the end, the M4 was the weapon of choice for lack of perceived recoil, ease of target engagement at short range, and high capacity (unlikely to need reloading).

That said, my wife and I live in a small, relatively quiet suburb with close neighbors. The police force is a good, and probably underused department, and I would expect reaction times in well under five minutes, realistically probably 2-3 minutes. We have a centrally monitored alarm, although it is not on that much, and there is no possibility that gunfire would go unnoticed or unreported to the police. All doors have deadbolts, and the doors are kept locked 99% of the time, even when we are home. Almost all windows are double pane glass. There are outdoor floodlights covering the parts of the house that do not face the street.

Her prep is this:
  • wireless land line by bedside
  • cell phone by bedside
  • M4 under bed, 30 rd. magazine with 55 gr. ammo
  • Flashlight in bedside table

Our bedroom is only accessible by a staircase that leads to the first floor back of the house, and a door that leads to the front of the house. Conveniently, there is a french door at the top of the stairwell, and from the french doors to the door leading to the front of the house is appx. 40'. If awoken by an intruder, she is to grab the phones, grab the M4, and move to the corner of the room overlooking the stairwell, then call 911. There is a spare 30 rd. magazine on a table in that corner of the room. From that position, the only way to get at her is by either opening the door to the bedroom, or coming up the back stairs. If an intruder opens the door, she has an unobstructed 40' line of sight, and therefore engagement range. Any rounds fired from that position to the door would have to penetrate two layers of plaster, then another layer of plaster and a concrete block wall to exit the house. If an intruder comes up the back stair, they will have to fight their way up a stairwell against a scared and angry woman with an M4. Any rounds fired down the stairwell can only overpenetrate into the ground outside.

For me, I wear (PJ) pants to bed, and would prefer to move around the house in bare feet for stealth, if necessary. As a habit picked up as a young 11B training for night ops, I tend to move around the house during darkness without using lights anyway. I'm pretty confident that between my familiarity with the layout of the house, ability to move quietly and operate in the dark, and marksmanship, I have the upper hand against 99% of anyone that would be breaking into my house. There will be no verbal or audible warning against an armed intruder other than the report of a discharged weapon. If it was glaringly obvious that the intruder was unarmed, they will be dealt with EPW style until the police come. That said, I think I need to come up with some more detailed plans for if both my wife and I are home.

Thanks to TR for bringing up this subject and for everyone who has contributed. I am already getting some good ideas to improve my plan.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:06   #28
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Intruder Reaction Plan

I have been thinking about this since I enlisted, especially in regards to how my wife will be able to react to an incident while I'm away. Any suggestions for improvement would be greatly appreciated.

Perimeter Security:

-All doors and windows have magnetic alarms, loud enough to wake the dead (we are light sleepers anyway.)

-Front and rear entry have lights on 24/7 (Energy saving bulbs)

-Motion-activated floodlights cover entire back yard, which is fenced.

-Arsenal, my 150lb Great Dane serves as notice of anyone within 20ft of the house. His bark shakes the walls. It has been enough to turn away a few salespeople and Jehovah's Witnesses...

Interior Security:

-Again, the dog will certainly slow someone down. They will have to kill him or drag him along as he chews off their legs.

-All interior doors remain closed. No interior lights at night.

-Glock 21 in the nightstand, my side. Equipped with TLR-1 light and fiber optic/tritium sights.

-Mossberg 500 20ga under the bed, her side. Flashlight in her nightstand.

-Cell Phones on each nightstand.

-Backup weapons throughout the house (.357 in kitchen, .380 in bathroom, etc.) AR and other rifles are in secure storage, not part of intrusion plan.

-Baseball bat beside door is for obnoxious vandals who mess with the mailbox/vehicles. (No issues so far at this place)

Reaction Plan (I'm Home):

1. G21 in hand, assess situation, ensure wife has shotgun ready and is in secure location in corner behind bed. Her flashlight goes on the bed at an off angle to her position, pointed at the door, lights off until needed.

2. Wife calls 911 from corner, based on noise and dog reaction I either stay in room with her or proceed to clear house. If the bedroom door opens it's the last move they make.

Reaction Plan (I'm away):

1. Wife has G21, goes to her corner and assesses situation.

2. Wife calls 911, holds steady until police arrive. Feel sorry for anyone who opens the door before that, as she is very proficient with the .45 (Trips to the range have been a regular part of my pre-training preparation.)

If we're not in the bedroom when an invasion occurs, she is to retreat to the bedroom, lights out, and carry out the plan as normal. I am to secure the nearest weapon and handle the threat while making my way there. Both plans depend on the exterior and canine alarms to alert us/her to a possible intruder. Both also rely heavily on blackout conditions inside the house to conceal our positions and offer the advantage of instant blinding from the weapon light and/or flashlight. Both plans will change with children.

After-Action Plan:

1. (I'm home) Any wounded / surrendered intruders will be restrained with duct-tape and held at gun-point until the police arrive. Seriously wounded intruders will be attended to if possible using the medical kit in the kitchen.

2. (I'm away) Wife holds intruders at gun-point until police arrive. Wounded intruders are out of luck.

3. Intruders who flee will have their direction of travel noted and the police will have to handle it from there.

Is there anything I'm missing, especially for when she's by herself?
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:04   #29
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I am still finding this thread disconcerting. And I think Richard has a good idea.

Having thought about the issue, it seems that I need to "fort-ify" my home. As I do not live with a team/squad, my level of security is never 100%, and is often 0%. Further, my cyclic rate of fire is much, much lower than when I had access to an M-4, M-249, or M-240. Moreover, I have no access to claymores, and my birddogs and other critters would blow every trip wire I could emplace.

Accordingly, out of necessity, using a firearm at an attacker who is inside my house would signify a failure of my defense plan.

My worry is, personally, not two dudes breaking in looking for $ to buy meth. My fear is one professional whose target is me.

My old senior Echo is a US Marshall, and has done a lot of personal security for big-named people. He made a comment that has stuck with me to this day: "If a guy who is good wants to get a shot at you, he is going to get a shot at you."

More random thoughts to follow
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:12   #30
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My fear is one professional whose target is me.
Wow. I can't imagine the life choices that would make you as a particular person a target. If you have and that's your fear, change your life.
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