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Old 01-05-2010, 18:38   #46
Buck
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Originally Posted by kgoerz View Post
Speaking of AMMO.....The biggest problem I have seen and always hear about is the velocity of .223 or 5.56. You all know what I am talking about. It just zips thru the Threat, not putting him down. My question is can Military units use Hollow points or soft tipped Ammo these days. I know Contractors use them. But are our Troops still restricted to Ball Ammo??? Never heard of this rule being changed
I am loving the conversation, and information coming out of this post. Couple things I have noticed, and by no means am I am expert, jsut have shot alot of bullets, and load alot of custom loads. I've noticed people refering to barrel twists, and using certain bullet weighs based on the twist, I'd offer one other element into this, is the barrel length. I've found where in certain 1:11, 1:12 barrel twists, as long as the barrel was longer it was able to stabalise lower weight bullets, and vice versa.

Kgoerz, I noticed you mentioning bullets zipping through the threat, not putting him down, another big reason, as TR recommended to go with a higher BC bullet like a 77, 79 SMK will work wonders. My best resulets are with a 77 Nosler, 79 SMK BTHP with Varget, incredible shot groups out to 600, and a BC high enough for knockdown power.

Just thought I'd add a coule .02 cents before I continue reading, and forget. This happens as I get older.

Buck
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Old 01-05-2010, 19:27   #47
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Originally Posted by Buck View Post
Kgoerz, I noticed you mentioning bullets zipping through the threat, not putting him down, another big reason, as TR recommended to go with a higher BC bullet like a 77, 79 SMK will work wonders. My best resulets are with a 77 Nosler, 79 SMK BTHP with Varget, incredible shot groups out to 600, and a BC high enough for knockdown power.

Buck
Do you have to single load the 79gr SMK's or will they work in a magazine? Do you have to compress the load? How much Varget for your best load? What's the OAL? Thanks in advance...
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Old 01-05-2010, 21:34   #48
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Buck - Where do you find 79 gr. SMKs? I've shot 1000s of 68, 69, 75, 77, and 80s (mostly SMK and Hornady) but I've never seen 79s by anybody.

koz - 77 SMK BTHPM loaded to 2.250 will fit in a magazine. I use 24.1 of RL-15. AMU goes as high as 25 (I'm not that desperate for another 50fps.) They are both compressed charges. I use the same load for 80 SMKs but OAL is 2.5 (long throat in all my match rifles). That load requires single feed; it will not fit in a magazine. Varget produces similiar results. Usual disclaimer - use at your own risk.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

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Old 01-05-2010, 21:41   #49
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Originally Posted by koz View Post
Do you have to single load the 79gr SMK's or will they work in a magazine? Do you have to compress the load? How much Varget for your best load? What's the OAL? Thanks in advance...
I shoot the 77 SMK with the following load data below, there is not much difference between the 77's, and 79's other then the OAL will be different, with OAL on the 77 SMK at 2.260, and the OVL on the 79 SMK at 2.550, since max OAL for AR mag is 2.260, obviously you have to single feed the 79's. I am still working, and am going to try and compress, which is why I prefer and shoot the 77's. I would recommend backing off the Varget charge a full 1.0 off what the below load data is for the 77's, and load 5 or 10 each rounds increasing .2 grains, until you reach 2700 FPS with a chronograph, which seems to work well for both the 77 and 79 SMK load. Note I shoot this load in a 1:8 twist Sabre Defense precision upper, and barrels are all different based on harmonics, so I would start .5 grains below what my load data is for the 77 SMK load, and increase .2 grains until you get the best shot groupings. I would not personally load above 24.5 grains of Varget for the 77 SMK's as max load is around 25 Grain. I've had best results with 23.5 Varget running 2700 FPS with CCI400 primers.

77 SMK Load data

Brass - I use LC, and Remington Brass - Brass trimmed to 1.750
Primer - CCI400
Powder - Varget - 23.5 Grain
AOL - 2.260

Hope this helps

Buck
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Old 01-05-2010, 21:58   #50
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I am loving the conversation, and information coming out of this post. Couple things I have noticed, and by no means am I am expert, jsut have shot alot of bullets, and load alot of custom loads. I've noticed people refering to barrel twists, and using certain bullet weighs based on the twist, I'd offer one other element into this, is the barrel length. I've found where in certain 1:11, 1:12 barrel twists, as long as the barrel was longer it was able to stabalise lower weight bullets, and vice versa.

Kgoerz, I noticed you mentioning bullets zipping through the threat, not putting him down, another big reason, as TR recommended to go with a higher BC bullet like a 77, 79 SMK will work wonders. My best resulets are with a 77 Nosler, 79 SMK BTHP with Varget, incredible shot groups out to 600, and a BC high enough for knockdown power.

Just thought I'd add a coule .02 cents before I continue reading, and forget. This happens as I get older.

Buck
Who is this old dumbass that says there is a 79 Grain SMK......

Oh, thats me, so as this is my first official, what would you call it, brain fart. Peregrino, I will need your address, and favorite, prefered drink. Be easy on me.

Buck
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Old 01-05-2010, 22:08   #51
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Next time do what I do - sneak back in and edit your post before everybody notices.

Remember the three rules: deny everything, admit nothing, and file counter accusations.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Old 01-05-2010, 22:10   #52
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69 Grain bullet....lol Just for Peregrino, I'm still a dumbass and owe him a drink

Years of research and testing by Dynamic Research Technology (DRT) in conjunction with elite agencies world wide have created the deadliest ammunition available. This is the only ammunition used to safeguard officials and has earned the name "Dead Right There". The uniqueness of this copper-jacketed ammunition is in the compressed powder core which is as fine as talcum powder, as the bullet is fired it is spinning at such a high speed, when it reaches any part of the "target" and comes into contact with the organic tissue the hydrostatic shock of the soft material going into the hollow point actually makes the entire core projectile expand creating a fatal wound. The bullet will not pass through the "target" making it perfect for home defense or close quarter combat. Hit any part of the body to stop it dead in its tracks.

69 or 79? P

Damn, how are you editing what I write...lol I'ts a 79 Grain, see, another brainfart. I posted a 79 Grain just for you
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Last edited by Buck; 01-05-2010 at 22:16.
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Old 01-05-2010, 22:18   #53
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I can see Danialson has alot to learn on here

So Mr. Miagi, I see now

Here is a lonk to that round, ssee if you can edit their site...lol

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM268-5.html

Doh, will TR or TS get pissed if I put a link in here?

Buck
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Old 01-05-2010, 22:45   #54
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ADMINS can do magic. That's why we use lime green and restrict our activities inside another's post to ethical or necessary (or sometimes JFTFOI) issues only.

CTD is OK, most of us have checked them out at some point. Might want to do a search here for other types of high performance ammo. We've covered this ground pretty extensively. There are also several good reloading threads; some of our members are cutting edge.

P.S. - Spell check.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.

~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:06   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino View Post
ADMINS can do magic. That's why we use lime green and restrict our activities inside another's post to ethical or necessary (or sometimes JFTFOI) issues only.

CTD is OK, most of us have checked them out at some point. Might want to do a search here for other types of high performance ammo. We've covered this ground pretty extensively. There are also several good reloading threads; some of our members are cutting edge.

P.S. - Spell check.
Just to be clear, I wasn't endorsing this round as high performance, just that it was a 79 Grain 223 round..lol. I have bought a few things from CTD. I wouldn't consider myself cutting edge, I just enjoy reloading alot, and reload for all my guns. The 444 Marlin is the funnest round I have been playing with. In regards to the 223 loads, the 77 SMK are a great round, but as I rarely shoot out past 400 nowadays in the 223 that is. I load alot more of the 68 Grain Hornady BTHP with Varget, and have had some incredible groupings.

Buck
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Old 05-29-2010, 22:37   #56
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Fiocchi .223/5.56

Anyone here have experience with Fiocchi's 55 or 62 gr. FMJBT ammunition? I got the impression that their quality is on par with most average American made plinking ammo. I am considering ordering a case of either, as they can currently be had for a fair price and free shipping.

Also, considering that the 62 gr. is not a clone of M855, and does not have the steel penetrator tip, should I expect increased accuracy due to the heavier bullet vs. the 55 grain? Will be blasting it through a piston gun with a 1:7 barrel twist.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-29-2010, 23:05   #57
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For plinking, I use whatever I can get cheapest. For "real," ammo, I have nothing bad to say about Hornady TAP, except the cost.
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Old 05-31-2010, 13:32   #58
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I have used Fiocchi ammo and wouldn't hesitate to use it for training. Otherwise I keep Hornady 5.56 TAP #8126N loaded for anti-social purposes.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:46   #59
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I have used Fiocchi ammo and wouldn't hesitate to use it for training. Otherwise I keep Hornady 5.56 TAP #8126N loaded for anti-social purposes.
For "anti-social purposes" I use Black Hills Ammunition 5.56, 77 Grain Sierra MatchKing ... cause everyone deserves the best, once.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:38   #60
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Funny, I actually have a couple mags of both the 77gr Black Hills AND Hornady's 75 gr TAP within arm's reach, for the same purpose. Both make pretty holes in paper, but I've always wondered how differently they'd work against uninvited company.
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