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Old 08-11-2011, 23:46   #1
SB8734
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Sleep-deprivation induced medical issue

Revised version with less personal information:

Years ago, a soldier at an SF display/recruiting booth told me that I'd be an ideal candidate for SF because of my language abilities. I didn't take it seriously until later on in college, I thought about SF seriously and took it as a calling and a vehicle to live my values, contribute to a bigger cause, join a brotherhood, etc. Unwilling to quit the semester and run away from family problems to join the army, I went to classes and dealt with problems back home, all while conducting self-training and self-assessment in college, including land navigation and testing my fear of heights, and finally, a week's worth of sleep deprivation sleep deprivation. I was determined at first to fix my family conflicts first before joining the military and SF to fix the world, but later decided that I have to establish my independence first before I can really help my family. Having always felt like myself and comfortable around army friends, I decided that the Army was the best way to do that.

Then one day in my sleep deprived mind I went to my recruiter with the biggest smile on my face and told him I decided to go infantry, that was the same time I started getting some really weird delusions/thoughts from the sleep deprivation I've induced upon myself, including thinking that I've actually died, and saying my "last words" before closing my eyes, etc. My concerned mother sent me to the hospital due to my unusual behavior. After I got discharged from the hospital, I tried to follow up with my initial decision to enlist, but realized how much the odds are against the possibility of getting myself medically qualified to get in, I've tried different recruiters, I even got my psychiatrist to give me a non-DQing diagnosis of "brief sleep deprivation induced psychotic symptoms," and write letters for me to give to the recruiter. I feel like I've been cheated by those who say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, you gotta push yourself, etc. I pushed myself past my physical limit and all I got was get reduced to a broken mind and DQ for enlistment. I wasn't able to join the military and I wasn't able to fix my family. I felt stupid. But then again, maybe I'm meant for something totally else, and in that sense, I might be stronger, but still, I don't really see how anything else I would rather do other than the things I get to do in the SF.


As weird and stupid as it sounds, I've never felt more idealistic in the sense of having found my life's purpose during that time when I took the SF as a calling. For the longest time since my hospitalization I tried to follow up with my decision to join the Army, but the odds have never been stacked up more against me. Basically, I came to this forum because I was desperate for advise and guidance.


I've prided myself in "pulling-off" many seemingly impossible things in the past. I know from experience that just because someone say it's impossible doesn't mean it's impossible. But this one seems like such a far shot that I definitely need help from you guys on this forum, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by SB8734; 03-26-2012 at 23:18. Reason: Original post was too wordy
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:20   #2
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Maybe you'd better settle for Napolean XIV...
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:19   #3
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Maybe you'd better settle for Napolean XIV...
Damn it, Dusty! That's twice within fifteen minutes!

I was composing a long reply regarding SA, etc in my mind as I read that post. It would have rivaled Sigaba in depth and complexity. THEN, you say it all in SEVEN words, and make me spit water on my keyboard... again!

(Even if you did not spell Napoleon correctly!
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:14   #4
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:19   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SB8734;408522 . . . I've prided myself in "pulling-off" many seemingly impossible things in the past. I know from experience that just because someone say it's impossible doesn't mean it's impossible. But this one seems like such a far shot that I definitely need help from you guys on this forum, and any advice would be greatly appreciated. . . .
My question is what else I can do to become a Green Beret if it's even possible now?
I can't see ANY thing you could do to top this. And they will love you in whatever Teamroom you end up in.



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Old 08-12-2011, 13:34   #6
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I want to give you a heartfelt reply...but I don't think I can top what's already been posted; suffice to say the Regs are there for your safety...and apparently for ours too.
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Old 08-12-2011, 14:07   #7
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BiPolar, halluciations and delusions

I totally understand and respect the military in its right to use discretion when accepting potentially dangerous applicants. But from what I know, the military revise their regulations periodically, and the leniency regarding specific medical issues vary, like granting more waivers to applicants with ADHD and depression in recent years. I heard from a psychiatrist who said he's worked with many Bipolar patients at Walter Reed who served in the military. So my guess is that at one point, the military did not consider BiPolar to be a serious/dangerous illness enough to be PDQ'd without a waiver, or that those people simply lied about their medical history at MEPS.

I mean can totally see why Schizophrenia, depression, and panic disorder be a problem int he military, but Bipolar? Most people I know who were diagnosed with Bipolar are hardworking and headstrong, if not annoying at times. Most of them don't hallucinate, and who cares about Bipolar when the individual does his job well? But is there something about Bipolar particularly in its relationship with the military that I don't know? Do you guys happen to know anybody in the military or SF community who has Bipolar?

Also about the psychotic symptoms (aka. hallucinations and delusions) that arise from lack of sleep. I hear stories all the time that in Ranger school candidates would mistake tress for vending machines and see women offering ice cream in the middle of nowhere when they don't sleep for 2 days. Do sleep deprivation in the Special Forces induce hallucinations/delusions like Ranger school does? Can sleep deprivation cause symptoms that can be mistaken for actual disorders like Bipolar and psychosis?

I don't routinely sleep-deprive myself to prepare myself for Special Forces or just for the sake of it, I did it on a one-time basis to see if I have the mental capacity to push myself. I have never hallucinated or had delusions in my non-sleep deprived state, how is it different than the Rangers that went nuts in Ranger training, other than the fact that my sleep-deprivation is self-induced?

Last edited by SB8734; 08-12-2011 at 14:22.
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Old 08-12-2011, 15:37   #8
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All I can tell you is there is a world of difference between someone that's in and someone that's trying to come in. Just out of curiosity, where did you learn about that training technique before enlistment?
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Old 08-12-2011, 16:05   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SB8734 View Post
I totally understand and respect the military in its right to use discretion when accepting potentially dangerous applicants. But from what I know, the military revise their regulations periodically, and the leniency regarding specific medical issues vary, like granting more waivers to applicants with ADHD and depression in recent years. I heard from a psychiatrist who said he's worked with many Bipolar patients at Walter Reed who served in the military. So my guess is that at one point, the military did not consider BiPolar to be a serious/dangerous illness enough to be PDQ'd without a waiver, or that those people simply lied about their medical history at MEPS.

I mean can totally see why Schizophrenia, depression, and panic disorder be a problem int he military, but Bipolar? Most people I know who were diagnosed with Bipolar are hardworking and headstrong, if not annoying at times. Most of them don't hallucinate, and who cares about Bipolar when the individual does his job well? But is there something about Bipolar particularly in its relationship with the military that I don't know? Do you guys happen to know anybody in the military or SF community who has Bipolar?

Also about the psychotic symptoms (aka. hallucinations and delusions) that arise from lack of sleep. I hear stories all the time that in Ranger school candidates would mistake tress for vending machines and see women offering ice cream in the middle of nowhere when they don't sleep for 2 days. Do sleep deprivation in the Special Forces induce hallucinations/delusions like Ranger school does? Can sleep deprivation cause symptoms that can be mistaken for actual disorders like Bipolar and psychosis?

I don't routinely sleep-deprive myself to prepare myself for Special Forces or just for the sake of it, I did it on a one-time basis to see if I have the mental capacity to push myself. I have never hallucinated or had delusions in my non-sleep deprived state, how is it different than the Rangers that went nuts in Ranger training, other than the fact that my sleep-deprivation is self-induced?
Not to pile on, but it hasn't yet been said... so: Read more, post less.

Somewhere here there is a thread where a young wannabe Jedi asked about "training" to prepare oneself for sleep deprivation. Had you read that, you might not have attempted such "training".
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Old 08-12-2011, 19:26   #10
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All I can tell you is there is a world of difference between someone that's in and someone that's trying to come in.
Sorry, but what do you mean?


Quote:
Just out of curiosity, where did you learn about that training technique before enlistment?
I assume by "training technique" you are referring to sleep deprivation. I heard it from a prior enlisted friend in Army ROTC, watched the "two weeks in hell" documentary, and some searches on google. A recruiter also told me that if I want to be in the Army, I better get used to inadequate sleep.


Quote:
Somewhere here there is a thread where a young wannabe Jedi asked about "training" to prepare oneself for sleep deprivation. Had you read that, you might not have attempted such "training".
I read that right after I made this post, (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ht=deprivation if you were referring to this one)
you're right, had I ran into this forum sooner, I wouldn't have done it.

Last edited by SB8734; 08-12-2011 at 19:31.
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Old 08-12-2011, 20:19   #11
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Originally Posted by SB8734 View Post

I assume by "training technique" you are referring to sleep deprivation. I heard it from a prior enlisted friend in Army ROTC, watched the "two weeks in hell" documentary, and some searches on google. A recruiter also told me that if I want to be in the Army, I better get used to inadequate sleep.

I read that right after I made this post, (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ht=deprivation if you were referring to this one)
you're right, had I ran into this forum sooner, I wouldn't have done it.
Let your experience stand as a word of caution to any young bucks thinking of trying the same thing. Anyone thinking of making SF needs to be getting all the sleep they can get - in order for their body and minds to be fully recovering and benefiting from the training and preparation they should be doing.

There are other ways for you to serve this country, SB8734, than the military. You need to look at other options.
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Old 08-12-2011, 20:59   #12
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Sorry, but what do you mean?
What I meant is that when a Soldier is going through training, i.e. SFQC, SFAS, Ranger, etc, there are numerous control mechanisms in place to ensure that the training is as realistic as possible while still remaining as safe as possible. When Soldiers are denied adequate sleep there are many people watching to make sure that someone's life isn't in danger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB8734 View Post
I assume by "training technique" you are referring to sleep deprivation. I heard it from a prior enlisted friend in Army ROTC, watched the "two weeks in hell" documentary, and some searches on google. A recruiter also told me that if I want to be in the Army, I better get used to inadequate sleep.
Either your lack of common sense or your recruiters lack of a proper explaination, or both, set you up for failure. There's also a world of difference between inadequate sleep and sleep deprivation.

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you're right, had I ran into this forum sooner, I wouldn't have done it.
That was my point. There's a lot of information on this site on preparation for the Selection Course...why try to reinvent the wheel?
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:01   #13
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Lightbulb Crawl, Walk, Run...

You should've just concentrated on getting in the Army and passing basic training first.

Stay safe.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:26   #14
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You should've just concentrated on getting in the Army and passing basic training first.

Stay safe.
That's been the best response I've read so far..................

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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
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Old 10-12-2011, 16:38   #15
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I weened off all of my medications now with my shrink, and I talked to a recruiter about my situation, he told me I should be fine since my Bipolar diagnosis was never official, despite my hospitalization. Even though I'm technically "mental illness-free" now, I still feel that I could use alot more clear mind, my problem is that I think too much. I did some research and found that mindfulness is an effective way for some people to deal with stress and Bi-Polar, I mean the concept seems just like what I need. I then googled and didn't find much when it came to information on practicing meditation/mindfulness and success in the military in particular. Does anybody in this forum have had any success stories or insights on mindfulness/meditation and dealing with stress and the military in particular? Thank you in advance for your responses.

Last edited by SB8734; 10-12-2011 at 16:42.
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