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Old 04-26-2010, 18:17   #1
Green Light
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What's the ratio of 180A Det Cdrs?

I got appointed at the end of the 1st generation of SF Warrants. Many things weren't figured out yet and Bn Cdrs didn't want their teams taken downrange with a warrant in charge. It began to change around Dec of 89 when our C team leader realized that he was going to have warrants leading troops in combat for the first time. I was one of them.

What's it like now?
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Old 04-26-2010, 19:25   #2
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My team leader was a warrant.

For Desert Shield/Storm my team Ldr was a Warrant, and a blessing. A lot easier to get along with than the Cpt they tried to stick us with. Long story but worked out well.
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Old 04-28-2010, 13:18   #3
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When I left group last year, our batallion was probably 60-70% Cpts and the rest were warrents. It's not as big an issue as it was many years ago.
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Old 04-28-2010, 13:27   #4
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Green Light - I remember the first batch of warrants showing up at Devens in the mid 80s and nobody really knew what to do with them and they weren't sure themeselves. I am glad that they seemed to have figured out the value over time though i do miss having those young clueless LTs running around
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Old 04-28-2010, 17:59   #5
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I used to have a company commander that was one of the last of the clueless Lt's. He had a lot of good war stories. When I was a young buck I used to ask my Team Sgt to tell me again what it was like before officers....much to the chagrin of our team leader.

When I got to group in '90 we had a really good batch of warrents. Back then it was all about length of time on a team, language skills, O & I, etc. Then we had a stretch during the mid 90's when it seemed you would have WO1s showing up with 2-3 years of team time under their belt. Everything was waiverable for awhile.
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Old 06-13-2010, 16:39   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiBumCFO View Post
Green Light - I remember the first batch of warrants showing up at Devens in the mid 80s and nobody really knew what to do with them and they weren't sure themeselves. I am glad that they seemed to have figured out the value over time though i do miss having those young clueless LTs running around
And sometimes I miss being a young clueless Lt.
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Old 06-14-2010, 00:02   #7
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I was the main dude on our team at Devens in 85 for 6 months. I never gave it any thought - it just took them a while to find a new O3 when ours was suddenly moved on up to Group HQ. I always felt, at the time, that I was just a caretaker commander. assuminmg that if anything came up that was really high priority, they would fill the slot, but nothing ever did.

But that was 85/86 - none of us in the WO posiiton really understood the expectations I don't believe - the most we ever discusssed was to become "split" team commanders from time to time. The guys on the team did not understand either. I was the first Warrant they ever had so they did not know what to expect from me at all. It was a mutual learning experiance then.

Heck - can you believe that was 25 years ago - sounds like the kinks have been worked out by now though.

I do remember one major disapointment that our team had of me back then, right after I first got there. I politely said no when they tried to pawn off the G-43 Generator on me. Being an ex commo man - I was not about to pick that thing back up again if I could help it. Traditionally given to the most unappreaciated position on the team - the LT-XO. I was not about to mark myself with that tag on day one. I didn't mind sharing it from time to time, but I was not going to make it my personal property.
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Old 06-14-2010, 08:06   #8
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In the 80's when the program started I wondered, "What kind of guy takes this path?"
I served with two very different WO on two very different teams with two very different Team Sergeants. WO1 was a WO1 went to the course as a 26 YO, SSG, had no right uttering 'BTDT' as often as he liked. He never really grasped that he was not one of the "kids" as he liked to call them. He never defined his role on the team, and resisted my defining it. He didn't see himself leading when the ODA was doing split team operations -- he was just another rifleman following the TS. He didn't understand field logistics or how to stand in front of the staff and get stuff on the resupply, wouldn't follow up a "no" by taking it to the next level.

WO2 was a WO2. was old -- like about 50 (sure that doesn't seem old to me NOW) Lots of experience, VN, schools, staff experience, lots of BTDT. I don't know what rank he attended WOC -- that he had ever been anything but a Warrant never crossed anyones mind. He didn't do heavy lifting in the field (probably missed it but was realistic about his field speed) but he could and did handle the logistics and admin while we were out in the field. He understood the cooperative competitive dynamic between a TL and the TS and was an honest broker to both of us.
TS (smiling) "We need to be on the same sheet of music."
TL (smiling) "I'm conducting this orchestra."
WO (laughing) "Well, we're just trying to produce a great concert, Let's take it from the top."

WO1 struck me as a guy who liked being a Green Beret but realized he might not have what it takes to be a Team Sergeant. I think he saw WO as a shortcut to being a boss without the responsibility.

WO2 loved SF and loved the Team. He could and did command but was just as happy with his nitch as next to the TL, and TS -- leaning more toward the classic role of Inf XO. He was the handler of stuff. The co-equal third set of eyes and ears. He understod that when it was all said and done the TL was responsible. At concept time or back-briefs WO2 was the experienced guy who the BnCO sometimes looked past the bright "come on, sir" eyes of the TS and TL to get that nearly imperceptible nod that said "They really can do it and I'll make sure at my end".
That was the best time of my life.

just my .02, brothers and it was a looooooong time ago.
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Old 06-14-2010, 23:21   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozer523 View Post
In the 80's when the program started I wondered, "What kind of guy takes this path?"
I served with two very different WO on two very different teams with two very different Team Sergeants. WO1 was a WO1 went to the course as a 26 YO, SSG

WO2 was a WO2. was old -- like about 50 a great concert, Let's take it from the top."

.



A 26 year old and a 50 year old - you surely got the two tails of the bell curve.
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Old 05-05-2011, 21:38   #10
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The program began in June of 84. I know because I was in the first class of 180As and we all got appointed the same day in June 84. Program almost ended as we were going to drop out in mass from some of the nonsense at Rucker but after a long talk with the SWC general who flew down to discuss the issues with us we decided to stay and fight the system from within.
We had no idea what to expect back on the teams and everyone had a different experience based on the different attitudes of the company commanders, CSMs and Team NCOS. Everyone went to ODAs as it was directed in a memo.
I went to Mott Lake and spent several years there until our BN moved from Bragg to Campbell.
It was a challenging, fun but sometime confusing time as we learned our role and found our authority.
I also made a quick change to the TM SOP and made sure I never carried the generator again.
My motivation to go 180A was to get more team time. I was lucky enough to get almost 17 years of A team time (7 enlisted to E-7 and 10 W0 to W4)

I have known a lot of the newer 180As in 5th Group over the past decade since I retired and find them very capable and highly educated. Think many of them could benefit with more A team time before the 180A jump but thats the reality of the system.
Just my few cents worth as I don't post often.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:16   #11
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I haven't seen one in over 6 or 7 years in my Group. I say overall it would be how that Company and Batt CDR had as a SFODA CDR. DId he have a Good 180A, then I say they will like 180A leading an ODA. Just as a CPT coming to his first ODA trusting his NCOs. Did his College mentor teach him that NCO all suck and untrust worthy, was his LT years plagued with weak Jr and Sr NCO within his Paltoon? Then this adds to it all.

Overall 180A's have become the Staff Backbone on a ODA. We don't do much for Split team ops, so that sucks.
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Old 08-15-2011, 18:16   #12
kuyarog
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I was in the second 180A class and spent most of my time as detachment commander.
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