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Old 06-23-2016, 09:10   #211
Leozinho
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I'm currently "Greasing the Groove" with pull-ups, as made popular by Pavel Tsatsouline.

I tested my max pull-ups then took that number and divided it in half. Then I perform a set of that number of pull-ups through out the day, every day. The key is never going to failure. I might do 10 or 15 sets during the day.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-c...t-work-for-you

We shall see. I'm only doing it because I can't get to the gym for a few weeks but do have a pull-up bar.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:52   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leozinho View Post
I'm currently "Greasing the Groove" with pull-ups, as made popular by Pavel Tsatsouline.
Lot of merit in that theory IMHO. A lot of the 100 push up prog. etc follows the principle. Also, one of the beneficial side effect is injury prevention. I do the same with dry fire/holding exercise, replacing the pistol with 15lbs wt
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Old 06-24-2016, 06:19   #213
tim180a
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I started Brazilian Jiu Jitsu about six months ago. I get a fantastic workout and it help me deal with mobility issues. Fun stuff!

Love the Strong First website. I do Pavel's kettlebell workout several times a week. Also started swinging the mace once in a while...

I will not grow old gracefully.
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Old 07-01-2016, 14:34   #214
Leozinho
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Originally Posted by Leozinho View Post
I'm currently "Greasing the Groove" with pull-ups, as made popular by Pavel Tsatsouline.

I tested my max pull-ups then took that number and divided it in half. Then I perform a set of that number of pull-ups through out the day, every day. The key is never going to failure. I might do 10 or 15 sets during the day.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-c...t-work-for-you

We shall see. I'm only doing it because I can't get to the gym for a few weeks but do have a pull-up bar.
Two weeks or so in and I have a little tendinitis in one elbow (never had it before.). I suppose its easy to go overboard with the volume. I've certainly done more reps with GTG than if I would have done a more typical pull-up program of 3 sets of 10 reps threemdays a week.

I've voodoo flossed it, which makes the elbow feel great but I'm not sure if flossing actually cures the tendinitis. If the tendinitis doesn't clear up I'll drop GTG. No sense developing a bad case of tendinitis.

Voodoo flossing = wrapping a bicycle inner tube very tightly around the elbow and then working the elbow through the range of motion. No one knows why it seems to work. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZG_9O_mAgM

Last edited by Leozinho; 07-01-2016 at 14:51.
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Old 07-01-2016, 14:49   #215
Leozinho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim180a View Post
I started Brazilian Jiu Jitsu about six months ago. I get a fantastic workout and it help me deal with mobility issues. Fun stuff!

Love the Strong First website. I do Pavel's kettlebell workout several times a week. Also started swinging the mace once in a while...

I will not grow old gracefully.
I've done a 180 on Pavel. I read some of his stuff 12 years ago and couldn't stand the "Comrade" and "Russians know best" shtick. Now I think he is the master of getting more out of less - which is great because the sad fact is that some of the masochistic workouts I did at age 30 are counterproductive at age 43. (And were probably counterproductive then too, but I really can tell now).
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Old 07-01-2016, 16:34   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leozinho View Post
Two weeks or so in and I have a little tendinitis in one elbow (never had it before.). I suppose its easy to go overboard with the volume. I've certainly done more reps with GTG than if I would have done a more typical pull-up program of 3 sets of 10 reps threemdays a week.

I've voodoo flossed it, which makes the elbow feel great but I'm not sure if flossing actually cures the tendinitis. If the tendinitis doesn't clear up I'll drop GTG. No sense developing a bad case of tendinitis.

Voodoo flossing = wrapping a bicycle inner tube very tightly around the elbow and then working the elbow through the range of motion. No one knows why it seems to work. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZG_9O_mAgM
Cut the volume in half for about a week.
Week three is where most overuse injuries happen.

Another strategy employed by the Soviets/Russians with great success was volume variation.
I use it with everything and have no joint/tendon soreness or issues anymore.

In the case of my weight training, it's just alternating a low volume "core" workout with a progessive workout (progressing in volume and/or intensity).
Scheduled rest weeks (every six weeks or so) seem to help, too.

A way to do volume variation with pull-ups might go like this:

Figure out the total number of pull-ups you'll be doing over a period of training (say 4 weeks) allowing for progression by the end.
As an arbitrary example, call it 4000 pull-ups (number is probably more appropriate for a push-up program, but it makes the math easier).

Divide that volume into 4 unequal parts, with a zig-zag progression.
An example would be 700 for week 1, 1100 for week 2, 800 for week 3, and 1400 for week 4.

Then, within each week, do the same thing (except here, you can repeat the same volume on light days).
An example would be for week 1: 70 on days 1, 3, and 5, 140 on day 2, 160 on day 4, 190 on day 6, rest on day 7.

Do something similar with each of the remaining weeks.
This assumes all of the sets are of the about same size (IIRC, it's half your max on that program).

Take a rest week, test your new max somewhere near the end of that week, and program a new training schedule.

The Russians found that this volume variation was much easier on athletes' bodies and helped to avoid "staleness".
It's worked well for me in avoiding joint/tendon issues.

HTH.
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Old 10-22-2016, 18:29   #217
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Started a training experiment about a year ago.
Quit doing serious bench press training in late September 2015 (heaviest lift: 285lbs) and haven't done bench press at all since November 11, 2015.

After addressing various weaknesses and playing with the O-lifts through the winter and spring, it was back to somewhat standard training.
Did standing strict barbell presses, weighted chin-ups, and high bar squats using the progression scheme outlined in an earlier post.

Neglected direct stimulation of the lower chest (no bench presses of any sort, no flys, no dips, and fewer than 100 total push-ups in the last year).
The chest did get some indirect work from strict presses and chin-ups.

After taking several weeks off from the gym, decided to check the results of the experiment.
At nearly 45 years old, 6'2", 185lbs, and about a year of neglecting direct training, bench pressed 255lbs without much strain.

A six week dedicated training cycle would probably push that number much higher, due to neural efficiency (skill).
Basically lost no real foundational strength in a year, and probably gained.

Conclusion:
Not convinced the bench press is a required primary exercise for strength training, though it's certainly a useful accessory.
The push press, strict press, or weighted dip provide most of the same benefits plus other benefits.

MOO, YMMV.
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:34   #218
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Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen View Post
Conclusion:
Not convinced the bench press is a required primary exercise for strength training, though it's certainly a useful accessory.
The push press, strict press, or weighted dip provide most of the same benefits plus other benefits.

MOO, YMMV.
I'm with you. I have found that push ups and dips maintain my chest strength really well. I bench occasionally to see where I am at but I have taken long stretches of time off of benching and found that I am around 90 % of my max by just doing body weight exercises. Usually now I choose dumbbell press over traditional bench anyway because I dont workout with a spotter.
A side benefit is I can do a lot more sets of dips in the time it takes to rack bench up. more intensity and less time spent at the gym.
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Old 05-14-2017, 18:24   #219
GratefulCitizen
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Been back in training for a little over two years.
Pretty much "in shape" now.

Training is no longer quite as structured.
I'll still use the 6-week training cycle listed in an earlier post if there's something specific I want to develop.

Worked on standing strict press some through the winter.
Have strict pressed 185lbs on a few different occasions without much trouble (at a body weight of 180-185lbs).

Squat mobility is fantastic, and there is no pain in any joint in my body.
I don't ever max in the squat (or very often in other lifts), as the risk/reward ratio usually isn't worth it.

Boiled down training now to high-frequency volume accumulation doing power clean/push press and weighted chin-ups at an estimated 80% max.
Along with continued squat mobility work, this works the entire body quite effectively.

What I've learned:
-Most training should focus on compound exercises which use the largest possible safe range of motion and work the desired muscle groups.
-Intensity (weight on the bar) should usually be between 70-85% of 1RM for the given exercise.
-Do not train to failure except on rare occasions (always leave a rep or 2 in the tank).
-A break down in form/technique is failure.
-The most important training "measurement" is probably weekly training volume.
-Spreading out training volume over more days (i.e. 6 half-volume days vs 3 full-volume days) is more effective.
-If you usually feel great after training, and you're not making progress, do a little more volume.
-If you usually feel crummy after training, and you're not making progress, do a little less volume.
-Given sufficient training stimulus, the most important factors are food and sleep.
-Taking up to 3 weeks off at a time doesn't seem to affect long-term progress.
-If you can afford it, a good massage therapist is a wise investment.


Pretty happy with the journey thus far.
Have to decide how far to take it.

Even at this age, there's room for further strength gains (only weigh 180-185lbs at 6'2").
Just have to decide how much weight I'm willing to gain.

For the older guys out there, here's a pretty good link to some age-rated general strength standards:
http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html
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Last edited by GratefulCitizen; 05-19-2017 at 09:56.
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Old 05-14-2017, 19:12   #220
Brush Okie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen View Post
Been back in training for a little over two years.
Pretty much "in shape" now.

Training is no longer quite as structured.
I'll still use the 6-week training cycle listed in an earlier post if there's something specific I want to develop.

Worked on standing strict press some through the winter.
Have strict pressed 185lbs on a few different occasions without much trouble (at a body weight of 180-185lbs).

Squat mobility is fantastic, and there is no pain in any joint in my body.
I don't ever max in the squat (or very often in other lifts), as the risk/reward ratio usually isn't worth it.

Boiled down training now to high-frequency volume accumulation doing power clean/push press and weighted chin-ups at an estimated 80% max.
Along with continued squat mobility work, this works the entire body quite effectively.

What I've learned:
-Most training should focus on compound exercises which use the largest possible safe range of motion and work the desired muscle groups.
-Intensity (weight on the bar) should usually be between 70-85% of 1RM for the given exercise.
-Do not train to failure except on rare occasions (always leave a rep or 2 in the tank).
-A break down in form/technique is failure.
-The most important training "measurement" is probably weekly training volume.
-Spreading out training volume over more days (i.e. 6 half-volume days vs 3 full-volume days) is more effective.
-If you usually feel great after training, and you're not making progress, do a little more volume.
-If you usually feel crummy after training, and you're not making progress, do a little less volume.
-Given sufficient training stimulus, the most important factors are food and sleep.
-Taking up to 3 weeks off at a time doesn't seem to affect long-term progress.
-If you can afford it, a good massage therapist is a wise investment.


Pretty happy with the journey thus far.
Have to decide how far to take it.

Even at this age, there's room for further strength gains (only weigh 180-185lbs at 6'2").
Just have to decide how much weight I'm willing to gain.

For the older guys out their, here's a pretty good link to some age-rated general strength standards:
http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html
Thanks for the link.

What about stretching? Are you doing a good post workout stretch?
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Old 05-14-2017, 20:24   #221
tonyz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen View Post
Been back in training for a little over two years.
Pretty much "in shape" now.

Training is no longer quite as structured.
I'll still use the 6-week training cycle listed in an earlier post if there's something specific I want to develop.

Worked on standing strict press some through the winter.
Have strict pressed 185lbs on a few different occasions without much trouble (at a body weight of 180-185lbs).

Squat mobility is fantastic, and there is no pain in any joint in my body.
I don't ever max in the squat (or very often in other lifts), as the risk/reward ratio usually isn't worth it.

Boiled down training now to high-frequency volume accumulation doing power clean/push press and weighted chin-ups at an estimated 80% max.
Along with continued squat mobility work, this works the entire body quite effectively.

What I've learned:
-Most training should focus on compound exercises which use the largest possible safe range of motion and work the desired muscle groups.
-Intensity (weight on the bar) should usually be between 70-85% of 1RM for the given exercise.
-Do not train to failure except on rare occasions (always leave a rep or 2 in the tank).
-A break down in form/technique is failure.
-The most important training "measurement" is probably weekly training volume.
-Spreading out training volume over more days (i.e. 6 half-volume days vs 3 full-volume days) is more effective.
-If you usually feel great after training, and you're not making progress, do a little more volume.
-If you usually feel crummy after training, and you're not making progress, do a little less volume.
-Given sufficient training stimulus, the most important factors are food and sleep.
-Taking up to 3 weeks off at a time doesn't seem to affect long-term progress.
-If you can afford it, a good massage therapist is a wise investment.


Pretty happy with the journey thus far.
Have to decide how far to take it.

Even at this age, there's room for further strength gains (only weigh 180-185lbs at 6'2").
Just have to decide how much weight I'm willing to gain.

For the older guys out their, here's a pretty good link to some age-rated general strength standards:
http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html
Yup, thanks for that link.
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Old 05-14-2017, 20:39   #222
GratefulCitizen
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Thanks for the link.

What about stretching? Are you doing a good post workout stretch?
Work through necessary ROM as part of the warmup.
"Warmup" is really more of a nervous system thing than it is a temperature thing (though this matters in cold weather).

Hit the bone limit on squats, and shoulder ROM isn't a problem, so I don't stretch much anymore.
Flexibility and FUNCTIONAL mobility aren't the same thing.

If someone isn't able to apply meaningful force at a specific joint angle, there are few reasons (perhaps performing arts) to have flexibility which exceeds mobility.
It's just asking for injury.

Your body will stop at a certain range of motion in order to protect itself.
Strength should be present through the full range of motion.

I could probably use a little more hamstring ROM, but tight hamstrings are protective of the knees, and I'm not prone to hamstring pulls.
Might be different if I was running (fast).
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Last edited by GratefulCitizen; 05-14-2017 at 21:12. Reason: Typo
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Old 05-31-2017, 20:41   #223
Leozinho
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I'm doing Pavel's Simple & Sinister kettlebell program.

10 one arm swings x 10 (50 each side for a total of 100) followed by 10 Turkish Get Ups. Time standard is 5 minutes for the swings, one minute break, and 10 minutes for the getups.

You can do this 5-7 days a week.

But you don't go all out every workout. Maybe you test yourself once a week. The rest of the time you take enough rest between sets of swings so that your heart rate stays down and you don't go glycolytic.

It's a very minimal program and that you can do everyday. Not what I would do for SFAS, but would be a good deployment program since it doesn't leave you depleted and worn out. You could finish the workout and get straight on the truck without having to worry about being fatigued.

I'm closing in on doing this with a 32kg/70lb pound bell, which is the 'Simple' standard. Sinister is doing it in the time standard with a 106lb/48kg bell.

I plan to move to something else when I reach Simple, but I can see coming back to this.
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