Go Back   Professional Soldiers > The Pipeline (Special Forces Training) > 180A

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-01-2004, 12:49   #1
RyanRC187
Asset
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 3
ROTC to Warrant?

I'll go ahead and introduce myself before I begin... I'm an Army ROTC Cadet at Florida State University. I actually just joined in April (I originally had plans to enlist under the 18X after I graduated). I'm a Russian major and will likely start taking Arabic in the fall.

While recently attending Leadership Training Camp in Ft. Knox I was able to speak with a few people about different possibilities about serving in a Team.

The one that interested me the most was that I could turn decline my commission as an Army officer after graduation and recieve a Warrant Officer slot. I heard this from several different sources.

To me however, it doesn't sound quite right, I very well may be wrong but I thought Warrant Officers were previously Enlisted personel who got slots to go through Warrant Officer School. Not to mention it doesn't seem right that a person with only ROTC experience and no actual military experience could get a slot.

If any of you have any information about this whatsoever it would be greatly appreciated. I've looked online for the past 2 days and have come up empty handed.

Thank you.
RyanRC187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 13:26   #2
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,484
Re: ROTC to Warrant?

Quote:
Originally posted by RyanRC187
I'll go ahead and introduce myself before I begin... I'm an Army ROTC Cadet at Florida State University. I actually just joined in April (I originally had plans to enlist under the 18X after I graduated). I'm a Russian major and will likely start taking Arabic in the fall.

While recently attending Leadership Training Camp in Ft. Knox I was able to speak with a few people about different possibilities about serving in a Team.

The one that interested me the most was that I could turn decline my commission as an Army officer after graduation and recieve a Warrant Officer slot. I heard this from several different sources.

To me however, it doesn't sound quite right, I very well may be wrong but I thought Warrant Officers were previously Enlisted personel who got slots to go through Warrant Officer School. Not to mention it doesn't seem right that a person with only ROTC experience and no actual military experience could get a slot.

If any of you have any information about this whatsoever it would be greatly appreciated. I've looked online for the past 2 days and have come up empty handed.

Thank you.
Your information is wrong.

You cannot "become" a 180A (SF Warrant Officer) without holding an SF Enlisted MOS, and several other requirements that are easily discovered by doing a Google search, or speaking with an SF Recruiter.

You may be able to do this with some other warrant branches, but not in SF.

It is pretty arrogant to assume that you can just elect to "become" SF qualified.

Odds are against you becoming an SF Officer either, since you have to serve credibly as an officer in another basic branch, then pass SFAS, the Infantry Captain's Career Course, Airborne School, the SFQC, BMLC, and SERE before getting to an ODA.

Haven't you asked this same question/stated this same desire elsewhere?

Good luck regardless.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 13:29   #3
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,484
FYI, I found 381 Google hits pertaining to this and answering your question in the last 90 seconds.

What have you been doing for 2 days?

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 18:16   #4
RyanRC187
Asset
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 3
I didn't mean to offend you by asking a question that seemed arrogant. I could not find anything online to support the "information" that the number of other people gave to me. More precisely which was being able to recieve a slot to Airborne, SFAS, SFQC, and so on after being commissioned and once completing them becoming a 180A.

I realize that to you this seemed like a foolish question to ask due to your experience and knowledge on the subject, but I (clearly) don't have that. However, I apologize for wasting your time.

Yes, I do know that odds are against me and anyone else to become an 18A, but thats not what I aspire to and me contracting with my ROTC Battalion was resting on that arrogant question I asked earlier.

I do sincerely thank you for helping me with a decision I've been thinking about for the past month.
RyanRC187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 18:33   #5
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,484
I am not sure what the majority of your comments meant, unless they were some weak form of sarcasm, but following a Google search for "180A Special Forces Warrant Officer" lead immediately to this site and info:


http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warran...qu/wo180A.html

Duties: Special Forces Warrant Officers are Combat Leaders and manage all aspects of Special Forces Operations in all operational environments. Supports Joint and Army strategic, operational, and tactical requirements at all levels of execution as concerns mission planning, development, and execution of special operations worldwide. Is responsible for the conduct of unconventional warfare, intelligence collection and strategic reconnaissance, collective security, strike operations, and counter terrorism operations; supports psychological, civil affairs, and deception requirements; and the conduct of other missions, relative to special forces capabilities, as directed.


Minimum prerequisites:

Must be serving as a SSG(E6) or above in CMF 18 MOS and not older than 36 years of age upon application.

Graduate from the Special Forces Intelligence Sergeant Course (18F) or a graduate from the Special Forces (SF) Operations and Intelligence phase of the Special Forces Advance Noncommissioned Officers Course, or the Special Forces Advanced Noncommissioned Officers Course (ANCOC) after October 1994. Note: SSGs may apply for accession into MOS 180A. If all other prerequisites are met with the exception of 18F training, the proponent will notify the applicant's commander. The applicant will be placed on an OML by the proponent and scheduled into the next available 18F course by USASFC(A) G3.

Minimum of 3 years experience at the SF Operational Detachment Alpha (SF-ODA) level.

A minimum Defense Language Aptitude Battery (DLAB) score of 85 or a current DA Form 330 (within one year) with at least a 1+/1+ language proficiency.

Meet the medical fitness standards for SF duty and the SERE level "C" course according to AR 40-501 and include an SF Warrant Officer Candidate medical screening memorandum completed by the applicant's surgeon.

Pass the Army Physical Readiness Test (APRT) by achieving 80% of the maximum standard on each event: pushups, situps, and the two-mile run.

Letters of recommendation are required from the company, battalion, and group commanders and a senior warrant officer from within the applicants unit. Individuals applying from units other than a SF group must receive letters of recommendation from their current chain of command and at least two letters from their previous group chain of command to include a senior warrant officer.

NOTE: WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED TO APPLY FOR THIS FIELD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure where you got the bad info that you had, but the right answer was easy enough to find quickly if you looked.

If upon graduation from your ROTC program, you have an SF enlisted MOS, are in the grade of E-6 or above, are a grad of SF O&I or ANCOC, have three years of Team time, a 1+/1+ or better rating in a foreign language, a current SF physical, a minimum of 80% or better in each event on the APFT, and letters of recommendation from your SF company, battalion, and group commanders and a senior warrant officer from within your SF unit, or letters of recommendation from your current chain of command and at least two letters from your previous SF group chain of command to include a senior warrant officer, you might have a shot at a career as a 180A.

And I would add, one hell of an ROTC program to get you to that level.

Have a very SF day.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2007, 09:12   #6
Prior11b
Asset
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 6
Pardom my ignorance

But the 36 year old can be waive? can you be older than 36?
Prior11b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2007, 09:40   #7
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prior11b
But the 36 year old can be waive? can you be older than 36?
Are you an 18 anything? Read the requirements.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2007, 09:59   #8
Prior11b
Asset
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 6
I have

But thanks
Prior11b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2007, 10:08   #9
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prior11b
But thanks
I am missing your point.

Are you an 11B over 36 years old and want to become a 180A?

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2007, 10:17   #10
Prior11b
Asset
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 6
Sorry for the miscommunication

I'm 35, I am a prior 11b, but now im in AGR status with the Air Guard. Talked to a recruiter yesterday and told me that I can enlist as a 18X, I know you have to do a minimum of 3 years on a ADA and be SSG, by that time I'll be 40+, now the question is, would I be able to waive that 36 YOA ceilling to become a warrant officer in SF?
Prior11b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2007, 10:31   #11
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prior11b
I'm 35, I am a prior 11b, but now im in AGR status with the Air Guard. Talked to a recruiter yesterday and told me that I can enlist as a 18X, I know you have to do a minimum of 3 years on a ADA and be SSG, by that time I'll be 40+, now the question is, would I be able to waive that 36 YOA ceilling to become a warrant officer in SF?
That is a pretty long shot for you, as I told the original poster.

I do not know what being in ADA has to do with becoming a 180A, but I do not think you will get that age waived. Too far over the limit and little team time remaining. Three years is the minimum, the board may not think you have been on a team in long enough to make a good Assistant Detachment Commander. Besides, it would take you over a year to get through the training pipeline, if you were a first time Go at all events.

BTW, unless something has changed lately, as an 18X, you will get to do Basic and AIT all over again. Then Airborne, SFPC, SFAS, the NCOPD courses, the Phases, to include language and SERE, etc. Serve on a team with some success. Then get to O&I and complete that course, becomiong a very junior 18F.

I have served on a team with a retired on active duty warrant, and it was not fun, for him, or us. If by some miracle, you manage to get through all of the training, get the waiver, and make it to become a 180A, do us all a favor and keep an eye on your performance as compared to the rest of your team members. If you are the last man to finish the run, can't stay near the front on the rucks, or are the last man out of the pool, do the right thing for the team and look for a job at battalion or higher. Being on an ODA is a young man's game.

The time to have made this career move was about six to ten years ago.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2007, 10:36   #12
Prior11b
Asset
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Taunton, MA
Posts: 6
Roger

Advise noted!
Prior11b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 16:02   #13
Backwoods
Quiet Professional
 
Backwoods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Monterey, California
Posts: 325
It depends on the person. I have a buddy who went through with me in the Q...Jeff was 38 and I was 26. That being said Jeff was a freak of nature and looked like he was 26. It depends on how much heart you have and how bad you want something. HOWEVER being in SF is a HELL of a lot more than just sporting a pretty green beret around FT Bragg etc.





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The conduct of unconventional warfare carries heavier demands than the wearing of a beret and the mastery of unusual firearms. Unconventional warfare is a state of mind as well as mission and distinctive set of tactics. -Col.(ret) Hy Rothstein

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.
-John F. Kennedy
Backwoods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 12:53   #14
180A
Quiet Professional
 
180A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prior11b View Post
I'm 35, I am a prior 11b, but now im in AGR status with the Air Guard. Talked to a recruiter yesterday and told me that I can enlist as a 18X, I know you have to do a minimum of 3 years on a ADA and be SSG, by that time I'll be 40+, now the question is, would I be able to waive that 36 YOA ceilling to become a warrant officer in SF?

Its ODA (Operational Detachment Alpha) not ADA, that would be Air Defense Artillery.
180A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 20:01   #15
HardRoad
Quiet Professional
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Georgia, Florida and North Carolina (its complicated)
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prior11b View Post
I'm 35, I am a prior 11b, but now im in AGR status with the Air Guard. Talked to a recruiter yesterday and told me that I can enlist as a 18X, I know you have to do a minimum of 3 years on a ADA and be SSG, by that time I'll be 40+, now the question is, would I be able to waive that 36 YOA ceilling to become a warrant officer in SF?
There are reasons you probably won't be able to, reasons you might be able to, and reasons it shouldn't matter to you right now.

Team Sergeant did a pretty good job covering the reasons it might not work out for you.

The reason it might has to do with numbers - the 180A strength is traditionally a fraction of the authorized strength - if the numbers are still low when you're eligible, and if you've been a switched on troop, and if you get really good LORs, and if you can write a good waiver request - maybe. In the Parker era, they cut the 18F requirement out, and the numbers still stayed low; then they cut the WOCS requirement out, and the numbers still stayed low, so who knows?

In the National Guard, anyway, there are people who become WOs in their 40's, and even people who make it through the pipeline at that age - one of the best 18Bs I know graduated the pipeline at 43, with a respectable run time, an incredible 12 mile ruck time, and an exceptional knowledge of both armed and unarmed close quarters combat. I suspect that the active component is probably less likely to grant an age waiver, though.

But, if you want to be on a team in your 40's, you have to be incredibly disciplined in your daily life. A 28 year old stud can afford to hit the Burger King every day after PT - you can't. He can afford to take a few days off from a fitness regime - you can't. He can afford not to stretch twice a day - you can't. He can afford to drink all night and train all day - you can't. If you're going to be on a team in your 40s, you have to prove that you can still hang to your team every day, especially if you're a warrant. If you're not finishing in the front half of the team when you run, when you ruck, when you climb, you need to redouble your efforts or reconsider your position.

As for the reason it shouldn't matter - being a 180A is a strange ambition for a NQP. Mostly, team guys see what the warrant does, and think they'd be good at it, or the warrant, or an 18A, or maybe even a good team sergeant, sees what the team guy does and think they'd make a good warrant.

It makes sense for an officer to want to be an 18A. They're already officers, and being an 18A is how officers go SF. It doesn't make a lot of sense for an enlisted NQP to want to be a 180A. Being a 180A isn't some kind of consolation prize for not meeting the reqs for an 18A (age, or college, or whatever) We put 18As on teams and train them up in the ways of SF, so that when they are company commanders, or battalion commander, or Group commanders, or commanding generals, they will not depart from them - sometimes it even works.

A 180A is equally valuable, but he serves a different function, providing expertise born of experience and understanding born of continuity to the regiment.

For what its worth, if you want to be SF, my advice is to enlist, either in the Guard or the Active component, do your best to make it through the pipeline, and, if you do, spend the first three years on the team with your eyes open. Be an outstanding SF soldier first, and then decide whether you want to be, and whether you're cut out to be, a 180A.
HardRoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why Lieutenent to Warrant Kyobanim 180A 31 04-19-2011 11:53



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:03.



Copyright 2004-2019 by Professional Soldiers
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies