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Old 03-20-2012, 06:35   #1
Odin21
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Combat medic vest pouch

I am looking into what vest pouch I want to get for my next deployment so I did a google image search of "combat medic vest" and this picture came up. Does anyone know what pouch that is? I have seen a few people mention vest mounted medic pouches but is there a thread on here dedicated to them that I missed? I have seen one on the Tac Med leg rig that you can mount on your vest, but that is about it. I really like the idea of having stuff on my vest so that I can work without having to go straight to my aidbag if I am treating someone without an IFAK like a COB or ANP. I have seen a lot of people mention the TT FRB as the way to go. Is there an advantage of a belt system over a dedicated pouch or two on your vest? If someone with more experience has any reviews they would like to share of what they carried and worked I would appreciate it. Last time I used the issued canteen pouch. It worked, but there has to be a better method. Any reviews/thoughts on getting a dedicated medic vest, like the TT medic vest or the BDS medic vest or should that be another thread in and of itself? Thank you for your time and assistance.
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Old 03-20-2012, 13:12   #2
lssah2025
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I have one of my pouches from CTOMS. You might like what they have.

I use a frontline with shingle (3 M4 mags).

http://www.ctoms.ca/t/equipment/ctoms-signature-series

[url]http://www.ctoms.ca/home[/url

I also have used the BDS medical harness/vest in the past and it worked out pretty well for me, problem for me it was not modular, so you can not tweek it for your needs, but overall it worked well with a plate carrier.
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Old 03-20-2012, 17:15   #3
The Reaper
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Not a medic, but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express before.

IMHO, you want ammo, comms, and a blow-out kit on your vest. You are a better asset to your unit with your ammo rapidly accessible from the prime real estate on your vest than aid gear. You could stick a half dozen TQs in empty space, if you really needed them. Or just stash them in your blow-out kit.

The aid bag for treating others is probably too big to put on the front/sides, and it will certainly take longer to access and find what you are after than a dedicated aid bag or ruck.

By the way, there are several threads here covering medical bags and med loads you should peruse. First search, then start new threads.

Best of luck.

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Old 03-21-2012, 06:06   #4
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Like TR ... I'm not a medic. You'll have enough chiming in so enough.

On our team we use TT tear away panels for our IFAKs. But with IEDs I would lean more to a vacum package style IFAK to be places in your CamelBak pouch. I know some ODAs & other are doing this and placing the package behind their armor plate for blast protection. Best style I've seem is one made with a parachute material with a red pull handle/ lanyard. But this is for individual med kits. Not aid bags


As 4 eyes a medical bag 4 Medic. I say you need your Aid Bag. With MASSCALs and treating people and starting IVs. You can't carry enough supplies on your vest IMHO.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:42   #5
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To clarify, I am not in any way looking to replace my aid bag and I understand that I cannot carry enough medical supplies on my vest in addition to ammo, comms, etc. I did not mean to give that impression. I was looking more for a single pouch or two that I can carry a small amount of trauma gear in on my vest that I have immediate access to so that I can leave my larger aid bag in the truck depending on what operations we are doing. As far as searching, I have tried looking up "combat medic vest" "combat medic pouch" and other variations thereof. Most of the posts that I have read in "The Aid Bag" section deal with true aidbags and then there is the review of the TT FRB. The one most similar to what I was looking for was a review of the TacMed drop leg pouch and it mentioned that it could be mounted to the vest. I have seen medics mention a pouch on their vest, but I do not recall them saying what it was or giving any sort of review on it. There are also a few reviews of IFAK type pouches, but I have not seen anything that I remember on vest pouches for medics, although I have wondered from time to time if just loading up on IFAK type pouches is a viable option. There is actually a vest from SO Tech called the MACH that has an NSN and is supposedly issued to SF medics that appears to just be a chest rig with two SO Tech IFAKs and 2 utility pouches mounted to it. Back on topic- if I completely missed the thread on medic pouches and/or vests I apologize sincerely and if someone could point me to it I would appreciate it and I will get out of your hair.

The reason that I have started looking at vests as an augmentation to the aid bag was the "packing list" in the back of the "Ranger Medic handbook" we were all issued. Here is the quote that got me on this kick- any comments would be welcome because right now I do not even know if this is a viable question. "The RMED/RLCS packing list are items that the medic carries on his body without opening an aid-bag or rucksack. All items are carried in a manner that provides ease of access. The intent of this packing list is to provide all immediate care for a trauma casualty without opening external bags or equipment."

The packing list consists of 1 cric kit, 1 NPA with lube, 1 14ga, 2 hyfins, 2 ACS, 2 CATs, 2 Israeli Dressings (6in), 2 Chitosan, 1 Chitoflex, 4 vacuum sealed kerlix, 2 saline lock kits, 1 sharps shuttle, 1 pulse ox, 1 headlamp, 1 exam light, 3 pairs of gloves, and a set of shears on a leash. I have an active shooter chest rig set up still from when I supported my college PD and I managed to get most of that in a SAW pouch with the TQs rubber banded to the front of my mag pouches. I was not nearly carrying as much "shooter stuff" on my chest rig as I do for the military, but I hope that even if something did go bad on campus I would not need 210 plus rounds.

For my military kit, the IBA that I have set up for training right now has 3 2mag pouches that go from in front of my left elbow across the middle of the vest. That way I can carry AR mags or shotgun cards, depending on what the unit decides to issue me. Up on my chest I have a double pistol pouch, a flashlight pouch, a TQ rubber banded, and a seat belt cutter. Moving to the right side I have a SAW pouch for holding my medical stuff now but there is some real estate on either side of it. My IFAK is behind my right elbow but mounted far enough forward that I can still sit in a truck seat. I know that some people prefer to have their IFAK on their front, but our unit SOP last time was strong side in the kidney area and I just kinda got used to it there. Having it back there also gives me a gap in my vest that allows me to access my drop leg Safariland. If someone wants pictures I will see what I can do. The whole reason that I am looking at a "vest medic pouch" is to replace the SAW pouch and better utilize my real estate. I know that I have to hit the gym more, but I am a big guy. I can put a lot of stuff on a LG or XL IOTV.

In short, I am trying to address The Reapers valid concerns about me needing to address fire superiority before medicine, which I completely agree. "The best battlefield medicine is fire superiority", which is why I am fighting to get issued a long arm in addition to just a side arm. A shotgun is not my first choice, but it is better than just an M9. Is there anything that you guys can think of that I am missing or that I could do better as far as the vest? It looks like I will not be issued a radio, but if I am I was thinking of putting it on my left side about where my IFAK is on the right.

As an aside, to anyone else who is wondering, evidently the medic pouch in the photo is a North American NAR-4 pouch.

Thank you guys for your help.

Last edited by Odin21; 03-21-2012 at 11:46.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:58   #6
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CTOMS pouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by lssah2025 View Post
I have one of my pouches from CTOMS. You might like what they have.

I use a frontline with shingle (3 M4 mags).

http://www.ctoms.ca/t/equipment/ctoms-signature-series

[url]http://www.ctoms.ca/home[/url

I also have used the BDS medical harness/vest in the past and it worked out pretty well for me, problem for me it was not modular, so you can not tweek it for your needs, but overall it worked well with a plate carrier.
This is awesome, thanks. What all can you get in it? Do you have any issues getting into the pouch with mags in front of it? I have seen this pouch online that is a similar idea but has the mags mounted behind it. I am torn between getting something like this Marz one or the CTOMS like you have, but I am hesitant about getting something that integrates my ammo and my medical stuff because I am still not sure if I am getting a shotgun or a M4. It looks more and more like a shotgun, but I can still use the shotgun cards in an M4 pouch. The issue I could see having is the elastic band over the top of what was designed to hold AR mags, not shotgun cards. Anyway, thanks for the recommendation and I would love to hear more about what all you are able to carry in it. Do you carry one or two?
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Old 03-21-2012, 13:05   #7
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I do not like the open pouch, it is hard to access if you are prone. The biggest thing is your mision profile and what assests you need to carry to support your mission. I am on an aircraft and the mission that I do my pouch works for me, I have 8 mags on the ready wall right in front of me to use. The 3 mags are for personal use if I have to egress from the helo and move to a patient. I carry a small med bag on the aircraft that I can grab and use if necessary. It has my narcs, paralytics, SaveVent, IV solutions, ET kit, and King LTD and a micro BVM, 1 sharps shuttle, 1 pulse ox, 1 headlamp, gloves, 3 TK's outside along with some other TCCC supplies. Like MtnGoat and The Reaper stated the best medicine is superior firepower and to do that you need mags at the ready. I would only carry extra TCCC on my kit to augment my med bag.

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Old 03-21-2012, 13:45   #8
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Thank you for taking the time to help me out. I think that this may be what I am looking for, if not then definitely something similar. I just want to have enough stuff on me that if we are working with vehicles, maybe stopping by ANP checkpoints, taking a quick tour of a police building, etc I can get out of the truck and be able to work with what I have on me and what is the the PT's IFAK at least for a short term without having to carry the aidbag in everywhere. We are MPs. We don't plan on ever being more than 50m or so away from our trucks. I have tried using a NARP medic leg rig in training but I really do not like having a leg rig that sticks out 6-8 inches. It sounds like I can get all the stuff that the Army recommends into a pouch like the one you carry and that way I don't have to worry at all about having a medic leg rig in addition to a pistol leg rig. Again, I know that I need to run more but with a Safariland on one side and a NARP medic rig on the other it made moving through doorways awkward, much less trying to get in and out of an ASV...

In keeping with what some of the others have said on here about DA missions, where the medics just took what was on their vests and a TT FRB or maybe an M9 aidbag, and left the big one in the truck- what do you guys think about "normal Army" doing the same type thing? If we do stop for a KLE, check point inspection, etc. and the platoon sgt wants me with him, should I try to load up for bear with all of my stuff, or would you feel comfortable walking around with a TT FRB and a decent vest pouch? If the general consensus is that I should just try to stick with the big aidbag then I guess I will hit the gym more and ignore the medic vest question.

In regards to the fire superiority- I have never been in any sort of infantry unit, but I gather that no one only carries the 210 rounds. As a medic, if I have the extra space on my vest for that SAW pouch, CTOMS pouch, etc should I just go with more ammo or should I go with more TCCC stuff and stick with 210 rounds or a rough equivalent in 12ga? I understand that the answer is METT-TC dictates, but at the risk of asking a dumb question, what are some general guidelines on deciding how to balance medical vs firepower? If someone would like to PM their answer I understand that too. If it is time for me to quit asking questions and go back to reading I understand that as well, please just let me know.

Thank you all again for your time, guidance, and patience. I am trying not to ask dumb questions or waste anyone's time, I just want to learn to think like you do so that I can come up with the answers for myself. My fear is that I will come up with the answers AFTER I need them. What is the old saying- experience is something that you get right after you need it?
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Old 03-21-2012, 15:07   #9
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Like MtnGoat and The Reaper stated the best medicine is superior firepower and to do that you need mags at the ready. I would only carry extra TCCC on my kit to augment my med bag.[/QUOTE]

This is so true. To many medics want all their equipment on their body armor. What you carry on you is to augment and support your primary aid bag. If anyone out there is trying to replace the aid bag with a pouch on their kit STOP and think back to TCCC and the Care Under Fire if you are able to approach a PT in this phase you use their IFAK before you go into you kit for anything. I personally carry an IFAK that is beefed up to allow me to do some TX while in a MCI or traige situation also I keep 4-6 CATs on my armor and 1 on the Stock of my rifle for fast access in care under fire (one thing to remember is that all TQs that are exposed to the sun and elements need to me replaced every few weeks due to UV damage that makes them un-useable). Its purpose is to treat only immediate life threats then move on to your next patient. Then when the situation is secure you are able to get into your aid bag and treat more PTs more definitely.

The open clam shell type pouch is what I personally prefer because you can see all of you equipment when you open it. I also like the rip off type so that if I am prone or need to place it further on my side or back for a mission I am able to pull it off and get access to it.

When I am in a Helo or truck or any type I have my aid bags* set up so that I have quick access to everything I could need out of your kit.
As a PJ I would fly with 3 bags, I had my primary ruck for use in MCI or long ground missions, and M-9 bag for "Down the Hoist" or DA type missions and a trauma panel hung on the bag wall or OX tank in a HH-60. Between the bags that I kept in the A/C I would never need to get in to my medic pouch while not on the ground. and when I used stuff out of it is was always able to restock it from another source while still on a mission. For convoy work the teams we did the same thing with 3 bags except the bags would be put in to different vehicles so that if one was taken out of commission the other vehicles would still have needed medical equipment.

I am not saying that this is the only way of doing things but its a way that worked well for me as a PJ.

Ammo, and Comms were never an issue, Medical issues always take a back seat to the fire fight that is happening at a given time. I also carried 4 mags on my chest rig and 2 more on first line belt.
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Old 03-21-2012, 18:18   #10
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I would challenge you to put together your chest rig with the med gear you think you need, and your aid bag.

Then make a list of the common contents.

Jock up and have someone call off several items that you have to locate and take out of your chest gear. Run a stop watch on your time.

Then repeat the test for the same items in your aid bag/med ruck.

I suspect that the aid bag is a lot faster.

Your patients should appreciate this test.

TR
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Old 05-16-2012, 22:16   #11
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Pouch in photo

Odin,
To answer the specific question you asked, that is the North American Rescue NAR-4 Chest Pouch (CCRK). My unit got us these while we were in Afghanistan. We ran civilian and military ambulances and this pouch was entirely too bulky for that application. It might work all right for dismounted ops. The supplies inside are based off of the TC3 guidelines and there are several TQs in outside pockets. Again, I think this might work well for foot patrols especially where the troops you are supporting might not have IFAKs. Also, that CTOMS Frontline kit with the mag shingle might be better. But, I have no experience with that pouch.
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Old 09-04-2012, 00:18   #12
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Just to ad some info I know its several months late from the OP date...

At rfi big army issues the TAB I think its called. Its a chest rig / rack system. Can be clipped onto your iotv or plate carrier. Has 8 slots for magazines, 6 ar 15 mag slots, and 2 SDM mag slots one on each side. Back side has two zipper pouches and a velcro flap pouch in middle.

If you decide to use it as a medic you wont have need for SDM mags. You could easily fit small amount of medical stuff in those pouches. etb/ace bandage, kerlex, combat gauze, tq. It would be a snug fit would probably be best to put it all in zip lock baggy and stuff in. Leave a tab of tape for something to grab and pull it out easily while wearing gloves. Better then adding more pouches to your kit I think.

I just put two TQs and trauma shears my self. With aidbag, someone carrying a CLS bag and each joe having an ifak plus tqs in top shoulder pockets I dont feel the need to weigh myself down with extra shit.

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Old 09-08-2012, 21:49   #13
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Weight?

I saw an article that showed the weight that each member of a squad carried . Two soldiers carried 119 Lbs. The most weight carried The Medic was one of the two. Tom Kelly.
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Old 05-31-2013, 12:34   #14
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Late to the party, but here is my opinion.

I understand what a lot of you are saying about your front being only for bullets and grenades, etc. However, I disagree for a couple of reasons.

As a medic, you are often walking around without an aid bag, and never know when something bad is gonna happen (shura, district center, 200 meters from an mrap playing with kids). It's not practical to think you are always gonna have an aid bag on you for every second outside the wire.

Also, with care under fire, you need to be able to do minimal interventions on short notice.....often in situations not conducive to pulling an aid bag off your back, and opening it up, and then packing it back up and loading in back on your back. Or, if you have to move to someone (while under fire, be it running behind a low wall, climbing thru a rear gun hatch) you often are just trying to get them to a better position, and don't want a big assed bag on your back (but might want more than a TQ if you have a spare minute or two behind a wall as CAS goes crazy, or your TS tells you to hold fast while he maneuvers on the shitheads (since you are still "under fire", but are relatively safe staying put)

Therefore, I keep a medical pouch on my kit to work out of without going to the aid bag. HOWEVER, DO NOT SUFFER THE MEDIC CURSE OF OVERPACKING. It is a small pouch. I have ONE c gauze, one h and h compressed gauze, one narp needle d cath, one cric kit, one npa, one pair of gloves. Elsewhere on my kit, like everyone, I have scissors, tqs (I carried 4 as the medic, so i Could use them for others without using up any in case I needed self aid), and a sharpie. Stuffed into the little Velcro pocket on my front flap (not all kits have this, but I believe the mbav does) was a halo dressing, which has 2 in it.

Very compact (magazine pouch size), and able to handle one gunshot/facial trauma/small packing job/basic airway. I considered this part of my assault bag when I packed the bag, since I would always have the mag pouch on me (ie, didn't need an additional crick kit in the bag).

Again, as long as you keep it minimalist, it is very helpful and efficient, and I felt comfortable going to a patient during care under fire phase and the initial tccc phase (still under threat or non effective ish fire and needing to move to better position) without an aid bag if speed or keeping a low profile dictated it.....since if that little pouch couldn't handle it, it wasn't going to be something i should be doing under fire anyways.
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Old 05-31-2013, 22:50   #15
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Originally Posted by Marvin Blank View Post
Late to the party, but here is my opinion.

I understand what a lot of you are saying about your front being only for bullets and grenades, etc. However, I disagree for a couple of reasons.

As a medic, you are often walking around without an aid bag, and never know when something bad is gonna happen (shura, district center, 200 meters from an mrap playing with kids). It's not practical to think you are always gonna have an aid bag on you for every second outside the wire.

Also, with care under fire, you need to be able to do minimal interventions on short notice.....often in situations not conducive to pulling an aid bag off your back, and opening it up, and then packing it back up and loading in back on your back. Or, if you have to move to someone (while under fire, be it running behind a low wall, climbing thru a rear gun hatch) you often are just trying to get them to a better position, and don't want a big assed bag on your back (but might want more than a TQ if you have a spare minute or two behind a wall as CAS goes crazy, or your TS tells you to hold fast while he maneuvers on the shitheads (since you are still "under fire", but are relatively safe staying put)

Therefore, I keep a medical pouch on my kit to work out of without going to the aid bag. HOWEVER, DO NOT SUFFER THE MEDIC CURSE OF OVERPACKING. It is a small pouch. I have ONE c gauze, one h and h compressed gauze, one narp needle d cath, one cric kit, one npa, one pair of gloves. Elsewhere on my kit, like everyone, I have scissors, tqs (I carried 4 as the medic, so i Could use them for others without using up any in case I needed self aid), and a sharpie. Stuffed into the little Velcro pocket on my front flap (not all kits have this, but I believe the mbav does) was a halo dressing, which has 2 in it.

Very compact (magazine pouch size), and able to handle one gunshot/facial trauma/small packing job/basic airway. I considered this part of my assault bag when I packed the bag, since I would always have the mag pouch on me (ie, didn't need an additional crick kit in the bag).

Again, as long as you keep it minimalist, it is very helpful and efficient, and I felt comfortable going to a patient during care under fire phase and the initial tccc phase (still under threat or non effective ish fire and needing to move to better position) without an aid bag if speed or keeping a low profile dictated it.....since if that little pouch couldn't handle it, it wasn't going to be something i should be doing under fire anyways.
Great advice, thank you. In regards to the bolded part, are you just carrying the cric for the case where you aren't with your main bag, or with your more advanced training would you be comfortable doing one in "non effective ish fire" as you describe later.

From a 68s point of view: For "one day" patrols (without a ruck) I was forced to use a walk bag with a skedco inside along with fluids, and my interventions in the side pouches because we were in very steep terrain. I used an extra IFAK on my plate carrier with essentially the same stuff you described in case I had to ditch the bag to climb to someone. Because I had to use an even larger profile bag than normal the extra front pouch helped when I had to lay on them initially.

Edit: I really think you need smokes right in the front with your ammo as some of the previous gentlemen said. No experience with frags.

Last edited by bandaidbrand; 05-31-2013 at 22:54.
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