Old 07-06-2006, 19:34   #151
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire
if I may stretch this topic, how about in places where the 2nd amendment is not too popular. Since I'd assume one does not want to intentionally turn his/her living room to a warzone, what can provide the same deterrent effect as a racked shotgun?
Sound of a pair of rott scratching and growling behind the door? This will require the dogs be properly trained. How about a poster that says: this house is under divine protection of Chuck Norris?


Super soaker with flamable fluid in it makes a handy flamethrower. http://www.guzer.com/videos/water_gun_flame.php

One of my other favorites is hammer a few nails in a board and sharpen them with a file.
place board under your window outside in slight depression and cover with leaves... anyone steps on that pokeing around your house wont be in any hurry to come back.
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.

"Robert A. Heinlein"

Last edited by 7624U; 07-06-2006 at 19:43.
7624U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 19:37   #152
Gypsy
Area Commander
 
Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 6,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7624U
One of my other favorites is hammer a few nails in a board and sharpen them with a file.
place board under your window outside in slight depression and cover with leaves...
Outstanding idea!
__________________
My Heroes wear camouflage.
Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 19:39   #153
x SF med
Quiet Professional
 
x SF med's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In transit somewhere
Posts: 4,044
To follow up on TRs post - ammo plays a big part in carry too - get low carry / low punch stuff - possibly Glassers or subsonic rounds - you don't need to kill your neighbors by mistake.
__________________
In the business of war, there is no invariable stategic advantage (shih) which can be relied upon at all times.
Sun-Tzu, "The Art of Warfare"

Hearing, I forget. Seeing, I remember. Writing (doing), I understand. Chinese Proverb

Too many people are looking for a magic bullet. As always, shot placement is the key. ~TR
x SF med is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 19:43   #154
Gypsy
Area Commander
 
Gypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 6,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Then use a door guard bar with a non-skid pad that slips under the door knob and goes down to the floor. A setup like that is hard to kick through.
I have one of these, my grandmother had them (she had two doors in her apartment) and I can't sleep unless it's secured to my door. Even though I'm on the second floor and live in a "nice" neighborhood I don't leave my windows (they open horizontal vice vertical) open when I go to bed. A shame really, I love the fresh night air on a crisp evening...but better safe than sorry.

You can get the door bar at Target for about $20.00
__________________
My Heroes wear camouflage.
Gypsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 20:14   #155
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy
I have one of these, my grandmother had them (she had two doors in her apartment) and I can't sleep unless it's secured to my door. Even though I'm on the second floor and live in a "nice" neighborhood I don't leave my windows (they open horizontal vice vertical) open when I go to bed. A shame really, I love the fresh night air on a crisp evening...but better safe than sorry.

Option for front door security just buy a cheap electric fence power box from a livestock shop and run a wire to your door knob then just plug it in at night if you dont have a solid metal door that will ground out.
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.

"Robert A. Heinlein"
7624U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 20:46   #156
BoyScout
Guerrilla
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 202
Before buying ASP battons or nightsticks, check with local LEOs first. ASPs are concidered offensive weapons in my AO. Some decorative weapons could serve as self defense weapons as well (if you know how to use them.) I have a decorative Blackfoot Tomahawk (yes it's a repop) that could serve for both. But the downside is that there is a stigma that goes with using these kind of weapons.
Same should go with ammo, I have heard that some states ban hollow point and frangible ammuntion. I could be and hope I am wrong. Having an older military gun like the SKS or a M1 Carbine might not bring as much unwanted attention as a Kalshnikov or tricked out AR or FAL. Same would go with something like the Wenchester 1300 Defender or Remington 870 HD with wooden stocks verses a Mossberg 590A1 that has been customised. One might look at getting lever action rifles that can double as deer guns as well as home defense. People will tend to look at it as a cowboy gun and not attatch the same stigma they might with the AK-47.
Also don't just look at the law books. Asks LEOs and if you can ADAs. In Oklahoma is legal to carry a gun in your vehical as long as it has the chamber empty and exposed and it is pointed away from the driver. At the very end of this perticular law it does say that the magazine could be loaded as long as the chamber is exposed and empty but I have asked both cops and ADAs and they will nail you if the magazine is loaded.
BoyScout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 21:03   #157
frostfire
Area Commander
 
frostfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: land of Airborne and Special Operations
Posts: 1,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Blades and bats are a bit harder than firearms. If thats all you've got you can't be saying "One more step and I'll hit you." as you're backing up. They will get in and then their friends. Then they will overpower you.

Somebody sticks their head in you nail them just as hard and as fast as you can. Stop the first one at the door/window and the rest may back up.
I am thinking how knowledge of the criminal (or mob) mind can be a great asset. I hope LE or QP who've been in a chaotic riot/jungle law scene can elaborate on this one.

the reason I brought up the topic is I had lived through a city-wide riot. No, I was not rambo. The neighborhood simply came together and sent a message to the passing mob that there's hell to pay if they made the move. It's like saying "with your number you'll eventually overpower us, but some of you are going with us to the other side. Now, who's willing to pay that price." One individual from the mob actually sneaked in to one of the house and got caught. Many wanted to teach him a lesson, but they released him almost immediately. The man was all shaky and fell to his knees when he was told he's free to go.

IMHO, the mob mentality is courage in numbers. These are your average opportunist-packed mob, not trained guerilla, or committed jihadis. If the individual is faced with the immediate consequence, he/she most likely back up. However, if they are provoked aka. one of them got hurt, I fear that would ignite the mob to keep going instead of moving to easier and less costly prey.

Hence, the banners I saw in Metairie that say "you loot, I shoot," could that be a good deterrent as well to force the mob or individual thief to move on to easier prey?



Quote:
Originally Posted by 7624U
Super soaker with flamable fluid in it makes a handy flamethrower. http://www.guzer.com/videos/water_gun_flame.php
One of my other favorites is hammer a few nails in a board and sharpen them with a file.
place board under your window outside in slight depression and cover with leaves... anyone steps on that pokeing around your house wont be in any hurry to come back.
The realm of improvised weapons remind me of a kid who use hair bleach and nail polish for other purposes. These are great ideas until the law, the neighbor cihuahua, the do-gooders got all entangled with it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
This is an area I was waiting for someone to breach.

Bear in mind that if you are out of your home, it looks much better if you have a glove and ball in the same general area as the bat.
Reaper Sir, thanks for the approval . I'd have gone to BLADE and see you in person had I known you're going this year.

I used to have steak-knife looking blade with me whenever I go out, along with fork, knife, and lunchbox with steak.

Last edited by frostfire; 07-07-2006 at 09:56.
frostfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 21:41   #158
12B4S
Quiet Professional
 
12B4S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 754
To add something to what Pete mentioned, concerning using longer screws ( at least 3" ) in the hinges and strike plates.

Most residential doors in houses, apartments, ect, open into the dwelling. In FL and perhaps in other parts of the Country, they open out. I only know about FL. I have a brother that lives in FT Myers. I noticed his front doors open out and asked about it. It had something to do with hurricanes and building codes. The point is. When doors open out, the barrel of the hinges are exposed to the outside. Leaving the hinge pin exposed as well. All anybody has to do is tap the pins out and walk in.

If the builder or architect are any good, they will specify NRP (Non Removable Pin) hinges. Which is just a set screw, screwed into the center knuckle of the hinge. Inaccessible When the door is closed. Preventing the removal of the hinge pin. Most the houses I saw down there, including my brothers', did not have NRP hinges. I replaced his.

For those in FL and perhaps the other hurricane prone areas, take a look at your exterior door hinges if they open out.
__________________
Brad...
12B4S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2006, 21:59   #159
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire
IMHO, the mob mentality is courage in numbers. These are your average opportunist-packed mob, not trained guerilla, or committed jihadis. If the individual is faced with the immediate consequence, he/she most likely back up. However, if they are provoked aka. one of them got hurt, I fear that would ignite the mob to keep going instead of moving to easier and less costly prey.

Hence, the banners I saw in Metairie that say "you loot, I shoot," could that be a good deterrent as well to force the mob or individual thief to move on to easier prey?
doubt it not unless your out on your lawn with a visable firearm.
if its a mob they will take chances. untill a few go down and they figure out this one aint worth dieing over.... a sign like that might stop a single or pair of thief's.

Could be worth dressing up and looking old and weak in a wheel chair or something maybe they will move on just on the notion you dont have anything. or are suffering enuff as it is, and will soon be dead in this time of Crisis, People tend to leave wheel chair bound folk's alone its just human nature.
But if they dont you have the element of surprize on your side.. few guns and knifes under your robe for instance and you can stand up anytime you want just the surprize attack from someone they thought was a easy target will make most flee till they gather thier sences then its time for you to displace and move case they do come back.
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.

"Robert A. Heinlein"

Last edited by 7624U; 07-06-2006 at 22:31.
7624U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 06:43   #160
Pete
Quiet Professional
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 12,489
Level of Brave

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostfire
I am thinking how knowledge of the criminal (or mob) mind can be a great asset. I hope LE or QP who've been in a chaotic riot/jungle law scene can elaborate on this one.........

One of the experts on group dynamics can jump in with more detailed information but I'll throw in a few thoughts.

A mob or riot has different dynamics than one or a few thugs sneaking through a neighborhood.

An individual or small group can all hear and see you. You jack back a 12 guage pump and point it center mass and they all think it's pointed at them.

A mob turning up your street has momentum and is loud. You and a few friends standing in the street may be able to stop the front to talk but, man, the odds are getting thin on your side. If you try and talk while the crowd surges around you, you are about to be swarmed. Game over.

You have to be in a spot where they can not get too close and you can defend from. If your neighborhood is organized a number of neighbors in second floor windows or roofs will cool a crowd real quick.

Or a line of cars blocking the street with you and your friends standing in truck beds behind them with a few more on the roofs. The crowd will be slowed and they can see you are armed. The problem is they can see you and you would make a nice target.

This is a hard problem to cover because not one item in here is cut and dried. So much depends on the "why" of the incounter, "numbers" and the "who and how prepared are they" are involved.

A thinking person will come out better than one who panics.

Most here are thinking

Pete
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 07:01   #161
7624U
Quiet Professional
 
7624U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jasper Tennessee
Posts: 927
The what if factor is high on this thread as Pete said.
give us a clear question.
__________________
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.

"Robert A. Heinlein"
7624U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 07:40   #162
MAB32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
This is an EXCELLENT thread, PERIOD! Thanks TR for bringing this up!

Here are some of my thoughts on the subject.

In this area of the country in which I live in, civil disorders, unrest, mobs, and riots are all the same for us. Oour rule is to use CS on them when the first object gets thrown at us, no exceptions. We cannot afford to let it happen twice as the "mob" will pick up on this immediately. For example, we all remember when the NG was down in the practice field at Kent State and a few of them aimed their M-1's at the closest individuals. Because they didn't fire, the instigators stated out loud that "the pigs guns aren't loaded" over and over again. We al know that this wasn't true and the final tally was Kent 0 NG 4. In our case CS is a force multiplier and when we throw one canister of CS and a HC greande along with it, the CS has a tendency to cling onto the HC and actually increase the effects of the CS two-fold. Now for some advice from my standpoint as a LEO. We cannot protect everybody in our jurisdiction, PERIOD! If a disaster strikes we will definately try, but believe me when I tell you that priorities are just that. We will try and get to you as soon as we can but remember, we will be taqking longer than usual depending on the disaster. Therefore, it is my belief and my advice to all of you, don't count on us to be there when the rounds start firing. Most of those rounds will be aimed at us and that kinda takes up allot of our time. So...arm yourself with a shotgun and/or a rifle and protect you and your loved ones. We will tag the body later and have it removed. I say this because during a disaster, there are three kinds of people: 1) Predators, 2) Prey, and 3) the Protectors. The first two are self explanatory, the third is all of us here on this site. Hopefully most of us here will also protect the ones who cannot help themselves on top of our own family. I am not sure what gun shows are like anywhere else in the country but around here we have guys who sell CS to just about anybody (Note: We have not had a single incident where a CS canister was used in a public place). I have one in my vehicle along with an HC. I call both of them together my "Anti Reginald Denny kit". I reccommend everybody here do the same. I live near a National Park so my distances where "contact" could be made with a Predator can be anywhere from 25 meters all the way up to 300+ meters (if need be though). Like I think TR stated before, just how much of a threat is a person that far away anyways (MAB's paraphrase)? We all have to remember that we do not want to bring any needless attention to ourselves in the first place. So opening up on a fella at 300 meters just because he is carrying a pistol is just foolish. However, if he spotted you first and decided that his scoped "deer slayer" rifle could take you out and he fired first, well then it is a no brainer.

One other thought. I am going out on a very big limb here over the Cuyahoga River (yes, this is the river that caught fire years ago!) . Remember this: "When asked if you have any firearms tell them NO, I sold them at a few gunshows a while back, or, I lost it duck hunting." I think you all get the picture. The above is just my personal belief when it comes to disasters and some past experiences while on the job. Take it for what it is worth and remember "We cannot be there for everybody, therefore people are going to die, don't be one of them."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 18:03   #163
BoyScout
Guerrilla
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 202
Not to get off the self defense topic but... What about communications if you are in groups, IE family, buddies, teammates, co-workers ECT? I know that with nukes comes EMPs and in any major disaster most cell phones would either be out of order from loss of towers or the emergancy personnel are using up the airwaves. Should we use CB and GMRS/FMRS radios?
BoyScout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 18:23   #164
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyScout
Not to get off the self defense topic but... What about communications if you are in groups, IE family, buddies, teammates, co-workers ECT? I know that with nukes comes EMPs and in any major disaster most cell phones would either be out of order from loss of towers or the emergancy personnel are using up the airwaves. Should we use CB and GMRS/FMRS radios?
BoyScout.

Do not hijack my thread.

We are covering these topics in a specific order. If you had bothered to read this entire thread, you would know that, and you would know when commo is slotted to be discussed.

We now return you to the discussion of disaster defensive preparations.

I believe that we were discussing what a beginner should acquire for weapons and basic defensive planning. Once we are done with that to everyone's satisfaction, we will move on to what defensive preparations a more experienced person might want to make in a disaster.

As far as scenarios go, I would limit engagement to how to defend your property, then to defending your residence, and finally to personal defense.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
The Reaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 20:13   #165
BoyScout
Guerrilla
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 202
Sorry, TR. I'll read it again.
BoyScout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 21:17.



Copyright 2004-2019 by Professional Soldiers
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies