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Old Yesterday, 18:39   #16
WarriorDiplomat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flagg View Post
I would push back on this one a bit, for the following reasons:

1) In the hardware business, it’s very common to go from paper design to hardware prototype in a single day in China. The speed is strikingly remarkable in an economy optimised for physical goods manufacturing.

2) China has built prefab skyscrapers in remarkably short periods of times(like days, rather than years).

3) After the Battle of the Coral Sea, and in preparation of the decisive Battle of Midway based on Magic intercepts, the USS Yorktown was turned around from a half sunk wreck into a combat capable platform in 3 days.

It wasn’t pretty, but it was just good enough, just in time.

Are we giving too much weight towards premeditation here and not enough weight towards The Will To Win?

The former is less uncomfortable to ponder than the latter isn’t it?
I understand what you are saying but you are giving the Chinese too much credit for effort and not enough for pre planning or flat out deceit

The sheer magnitude of the ability to build a thousand bed hospital with equipment and a staff in 6 days is impossible....unless paint, mortar etc.....dry and cure at a different rate in China not to mention that in order for it to run the grid has to be beefed up to handle the extra draw....the will to win as in the Russians with guns to their backs in WW2 or the will to win as in such a spirited and determined effort they overcome insurmountable odds....the Chinese are tough people but you cannot convince me they created a functioning hospital in 6 days even with slave labor working 24/7....they have an eastern philosophy that is very different to western but Sun Tzu is more along the lines of the truth
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Old Yesterday, 20:28   #17
Old Dog New Trick
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It’s just my belief but, for a country (China) that even in times of great economic prosperity builds complete cities sans people, the utilities and the infrastructure to support life and inhabitants because it gives workers a job (stay busy) and don’t revolt. I find it increasingly difficult to believe that the temporary “hospitals” built in Wuhan were nothing more than covered mortuaries where sick people were either brought in or walked in and left in a zippered bag on their way to incinerators which we’ve been told were running at capacity 24/7 at 500/day times seven.

Simple math says at that rate over say 60 days that’s 210,000 out of a population of 11 million. Hardly noticeable and the Chinese communist party will never allow any westerners access to those facilities (which I’ve been told are already being dismantled for “safety reasons”) or the families who lost all their aging and sick parents and grandparents; drain on society anyway not very productive. Some survived, obviously many never got sick. I doubt they knew then or know now what treatments worked or didn’t work. To them it was all just an active laboratory, try this, try that, what did we use the last time?

Was it odd that a vacant multi story hotel being used to isolate people collapsed in the midst of all this? No, that’s just a distraction while they move other pieces on their chessboard.

You want to know why Chinese people, more so than other Asian people, smile at you while talking? It’s because they are lying!

The Ming dynasty (I think I got that one right) didn’t build the Great Wall to keep Mongolian aggressors out, but to keep the peasants happily employed while living a lavish life style back in Beijing with fireworks, theatre and great food.

Nothing has changed much.

Their aircraft carrier is a modern day piece of shit, as is their Air Force and Navy. But hey they have 1.5 billion people and maybe 20% of them are willing to take up arms to defend their way of life, unless the other 80% say don’t, and that’s not likely to happen because 1% of the true believers of the communist party will slaughter entire villages until compliance is regained.

Just an old 1st Group guy reminiscing about that other N. Korean Peninsula problem.
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Old Yesterday, 20:40   #18
Penn
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Flagg
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Are we giving too much weight towards premeditation here and not enough weight towards The Will To Win?
Latter/Former, Former/Latter?
Why would one weight one over the other in execution? When it would be reasonable to conclude that premeditation would encompass the will to win.

The Chinese employ a multifaceted approach to their long term goals. nothing is outside their interest. eg (but you know this) from the UN, telecom, 5G, academia, business partnerships (google affording AI population/social controls) I suspect that any chip made in china has built into it, a backdoor for their exploration into whatever system the chip is placed.

btw, the mad scientist post was brilliant.
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Old Yesterday, 22:38   #19
twistedsquid
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Chinese Navy isn't Jack Shit. Our subs would end them in a NY minute.
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Old Yesterday, 23:51   #20
Flagg
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Originally Posted by Penn View Post
Flagg
Latter/Former, Former/Latter?
Why would one weight one over the other in execution? When it would be reasonable to conclude that premeditation would encompass the will to win.

The Chinese employ a multifaceted approach to their long term goals. nothing is outside their interest. eg (but you know this) from the UN, telecom, 5G, academia, business partnerships (google affording AI population/social controls) I suspect that any chip made in china has built into it, a backdoor for their exploration into whatever system the chip is placed.

btw, the mad scientist post was brilliant.
Cheers for the last bit!

I see your point that it could be both premeditation as well as “the will to win” concurrently rather than on a proportional continuum.

I agree with much in your post and this thread.

The CCP/PLA are The Main Enemy in my opinion.

Where I might differ a bit is in assessment.

China’s Three Warfares doctrine and strategy is unrestricted political warfare.

My concerns consist of:

whether or not western society has the will to win,

what China’s real strengths and vulnerabilities are,

and how we can reduce a much bigger/badder counterfeit Chinese Nazi threat
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Old Today, 00:01   #21
Flagg
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Originally Posted by twistedsquid View Post
Chinese Navy isn't Jack Shit. Our subs would end them in a NY minute.
Largely true, I reckon.

Launching and recovering fighter planes in low volume and optimal conditions is one thing.

Launching and recovering in terrible weather, combat conditions, and high volume is entirely another.

That takes decades.

What doesn’t take decades anymore is disruptive capability to negate trillion dollar sunk costs(aircraft carrier fleet global capability).

Maybe China’s DF-21D is a lousy Chinese bottle rocket.

Maybe it’s a carrier killer.

Maybe the US can easily defeat it.

But the days of having to spend trillions in order to defeat trillions in legacy capability are over.
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Old Today, 08:49   #22
Penn
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But the days of having to spend trillions in order to defeat trillions in legacy capability are over.
How much is that virus in the bottle?
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