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Old 04-06-2012, 05:52   #16
Golf1echo
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Dark Matter, that sounds like an interesting gig.
A couple of things that other cultures prioritize for cold weather sustainability have always caught my eye. The Finns enjoy the benefits of sauna and usually deploy with sauna tents in the cold, even ran across one used for their horses during WWII, which answers some of the mobility questions about how they were able to operate so well against the Russians for extended periods of extreme cold. Doing a search you will find some of the light weight sauna tents one of which claims to take the record for the highest ( in elevation ) sauna ever used. Other cultures also understand the value of Hot Tubs to Winter health. Both methods rid the users of built up toxins as they sweat and increased oxygen absorption due to dilated red blood vessels, not to mention the mental and physical benefits of rewarming and staying clean in extreme cold weather...
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:08   #17
Golf1echo
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Other sustaining strategies for extreme cold weather shelter can be both passive and active. If you are a skier you are familiar with some of the ways people warm themselves. Great examples are found at the top or sun decks of the slopes. The idea is to take a little time and get out of the wind and into the sun, even a small wall or area will work great for this, a bit like a battery recharge. Coupled with what Pete mentioned, eating some good food like bread, cheese and sausage and you have done much to empower yourself for more cold.

An active strategy commonly employed is the warming hut. There are many examples from traditional to very new that have been used. Even something simple can suffice for the envelope and communal use is more efficient than several individual warming areas. They can be spread along a route so that movement can be facilitated like many cross country ski areas use. I realize this is obvious but wanted to show the rich vocabulary.
The link begins with some radical designs but you will see some eloquent traditional designs too .
http://www.google.com/search?q=warming+huts&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=aV9&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=8V6 HT8qLN4GH8AGJxZWbCA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2 &ved=0CCAQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=622
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HospizAlmPR4.jpg (35.2 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg skiing-sun-bathing-tyrol.jpg (88.1 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg Mt Hood Warming Hut.jpg (8.0 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg royalgorgewarmhut Cross Country Ski Resort.jpg (9.2 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg Tanning reflector.jpg (110.0 KB, 95 views)
File Type: jpg Gators on sun deck.jpg (158.4 KB, 96 views)
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

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"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart

Last edited by Golf1echo; 04-14-2012 at 07:59.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:08   #18
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Follow up: G1 Thermal Liner and G1 Ground Pad

Here are some images of our system up on the mountain. The G1 Thermal Liner and G1 Ground pad allow for much more room to sleep in, room for gear when used as a stand alone shelter and function flexibility over a bag design. Weights are comparable to a down bag and the insulation and design handles moisture better than many synthetic bags. The modular nature enables users to be protected in a wider spectrum of conditions. The system is designed to incorporate a variety of equipment the user already has for flexibility and weight reduction.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg G1 Denali Mountain.jpg (45.2 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg G1 Denali in tent.jpg (52.0 KB, 114 views)
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

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Last edited by Golf1echo; 07-12-2012 at 10:16.
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Old 07-12-2012, 19:52   #19
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Is it based on a quilt/pad concept?
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Old 07-13-2012, 00:56   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Is it based on a quilt/pad concept?
Basically it turned out that way.

Took another look at the concept of basic shelter and sleeping situations.
Wanted to apply modern performance based materials.
Weight considerations dictated Light weight materials and trying to capture the essence in a simple but functional solution.
Integrate active and passive energies.

Attached is an early concept drawing, an image of the liner, ground pad showing the different parts, several different systems in testing, and a good image of the insulation performance compliments of the US Navy.

The G1 Thermal Liner has layered synthetic insulation and breathable thermal reflecting material. The liner is useful from 30f- -30f by itself and additional layers of insulation can be added for colder temps.

The G1 Ground Pad is designed to mitigate ground conduction, heat loss from convection, the loss of insulation efficiency due to being compressed beneath the user,etc... It uses layered synthetic insulation and solid thermal reflective material. It is built with a waterproof tub bottom, different types of sleeping pads can be added and secured into the piece. We learned that the non-inflatable pads were the way to go in extreme cold weather because of moisture freeze up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1920.jpg (44.7 KB, 96 views)
File Type: jpg G1 BMC.jpg (65.5 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2149.jpg (53.3 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg Prima Loft +111.jpg (47.5 KB, 88 views)
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

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"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart

Last edited by Golf1echo; 07-13-2012 at 01:38.
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Old 07-13-2012, 17:34   #21
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I can attest to the sturdiness and durability of the products G1E makes.

I owe some pics, will try to get them up in the near future.

Haven't seen the ground pad, though. Nice concept.

TR
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:37   #22
Golf1echo
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TR I appreciate that and hope items have been functional. The book" Lighten up" by Don Ladigin was given to me by one of the instructors. It is an easy read and used to convey some of the ideas about Light and Ultra Light backpacking. I was pleased to find the weights of our pieces fall in line and it was interesting to understand more about that kind of hiking. I also had some nice discussions with AT hikers at NOC.http://www.noc.com

Another use for the system is as an Evac Bag, not sure how many remember the old bag with the fur around the collar but that was quite a piece and weighed over ten pounds, this works better at less than half the weight while giving Med Personnel great access, even in cold temps. One or both pieces are useful in "Speed Ball" resupplies or "BOBs" for cold regions and they work pretty well in a cool FOB, expedient shelter, trench or litter. The orange we use can makes those pieces panel markers but coyote brown, green, white and grey are also available.
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

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"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart

Last edited by Golf1echo; 07-17-2012 at 03:42.
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Old 07-17-2012, 21:19   #23
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Skurka talks about his preference for quilt/pad systems in his "Ultimate Hiker" book, based on the balance of performance, weight and range. Sounds like the G1 has similar advantages. Nice job!
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Old 07-18-2012, 18:20   #24
Golf1echo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
Skurka talks about his preference for quilt/pad systems in his "Ultimate Hiker" book, based on the balance of performance, weight and range. Sounds like the G1 has similar advantages. Nice job!
Great resource, I ordered the book as it looks even more in depth covering some aspects with more detail, his site is interesting too. http://andrewskurka.com/
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

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"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart

Last edited by Golf1echo; 07-18-2012 at 18:22.
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Old 04-10-2017, 20:36   #25
Golf1echo
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Any thoughts about -45f to -65f mission sets?
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...747b74b15f3d5e
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

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Old 04-10-2017, 21:54   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brush Okie View Post
Yea, stay in a Holiday inn.
Ok I'm going to have to +1 that comment.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:37   #27
Golf1echo
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Fairbanks is the closest one and much more affordable, I did sleep much better over at Black Rapids although it was a balmy -30f.
Others did take pieces above the Arctic Circle on a joint US/ Canadian exercise where temps dipped down to -72f...but you better be sheltered up or in a space suit with heaters.
When you think about it those conditions potentially dish out some big temperature swings all in the deadly range. I did find it insightful to visit the museum at the University of Alaska https://www.uaf.edu/museum/ and see how the indigenous peoples survived in those environments. Carabou hides, seal stomachs, snow blocks, blubber oil heaters, using the stratified heat inside their shelters ie. sleeping in lofts.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2256.jpg (52.1 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2265.jpg (62.3 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2262.jpg (54.5 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2307.jpg (49.9 KB, 31 views)
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

Essayons

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"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart

Last edited by Golf1echo; 04-11-2017 at 10:05. Reason: images
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:48   #28
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*******

Was rattling around the internet one day a while back and got in the neighborhood of the Raid on Telemark.

One of the clips was on a modern recreation of the route. Most had modern gear but some had the WW II rations and gear. Pretty primitive but it got the job done.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:56   #29
Golf1echo
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Pete, I can still see that guy's expression as he emerged in the morning, I think he was being a good sport although some of those old bags were toasty if they were dry. Attached are two of the 10th mt div. tents from WWII. Edit: Shown is the white side of the reversible Army Mountain Tent http://quanonline.com/military/milit...t/1944tent.php

There used to be a company called Bibler who made some tents for the US Military, Black Diamond bought the company. I find it interesting, I used to have to walk through their show room to get to the offices I worked in above them, maybe a seed was planted?

Then there were the US ECWS tents supposedly designed by NATICK and built by North Face ( now Vanity Fair ) and looks like later Eureka built some or a version of them. They looked to be great tents, I understood they came with a snow shell and a woodland shell...not sure if any are still floating around in inventory, I know several folks that ended up with the ( shells/flies ). Not sure why it didn't occur to insulate them for extreme cold weather use? They claim to be geodesic domes which Buck Minister Fuller designed ( very stable and strong structure )...they were close. I would love to get my hands on one but not at $2,000.00- $3,000.00 as they are seen on e(harbor).

The Marines have a new cold weather tent, not sure if it's still in prototype phase but god help them if it's similar to the tent that looks similar and had a supposed rapid star shaped pole system, I did get my hands on one once and returned it immediately as it was non functioning.

I see the Inuit used caribou hides or snow to build insulated shelters for Winter. They used tunnel entrances oriented lower than the shelter and often had separated entrance foyers.

When we started out we made the G1 ISSUE System which was a multi-functional platform that could be insulated in different ways however end users wanted a much smaller and lighter solution so we focused on that. It is still a good solution for many situations.

Probably not to surprising the lead on the announcement has yet to get back to us
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WWII 10th Mt Div tent 1.jpg (59.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg WWII 10th Mt Div tent 2.jpg (52.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg ECWS NF & Eureka Tents.jpg (25.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg G1 ISSUE Ind.Surv.Shelt.Unit Extend.jpg (99.2 KB, 20 views)
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"It is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly...that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again." Sir Francis Younghusband

Essayons

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"In the school of the wilds,there is no graduation day"Horace Kephart

Last edited by Golf1echo; 04-15-2017 at 23:01.
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:14   #30
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G1E, the idea of an integrated insulation pad, bag, and reflective/vapor barrier reminds me of the old Warmlite/Stephenson triple, which I'm sure you've come across (maybe even used?); although reliant on materials not esp appropriate to this mission set, the concept and attempt to use offset baffling to minimize loft shift or compression and cold spots seems sound.

Once you introduce the wx extremes of those temp ranges, wind resistance, and maybe snowfall weight for picking a tent system, all hell breaks loose in terms of pack weight to usable volume, venting/condensation mgmt., guying vs self-tensioning. I don't envy you the challenge of design!

As a warm sleeper, I've done well with a -20F (ratings always taken with a large grain of salt, being dependent on pad choice and user metabolism, I think) synth bag and rip-stop/g-tex bivy bag, with a light-wt tarp for heavy rain/snow when needed and when really in bad winter wx, tarping over a slit trench. Able to stay drier than digging a full cave or quinzee. Short-term use only, and the caveat that I hate winter camping...

Does your bag system have the option of mating (zips or hook/loop) two together? It seems you'd maybe lose insulation along the edge to be joined, for the utility of shared warmth (aka 'trying not to freeze to death').

http://warmlite.com/wp-content/uploa...2/bag-Info.jpg

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