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Old 02-14-2018, 08:27   #16
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Originally Posted by SouthernDZ View Post
FNC announced this morning that BCT was undergoing significant changes because the recruits act "entitled" - they did not elaborate on what those changes were going to be though.
Army Times article (from 4 days ago) elaborated.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:45   #17
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If you entered basic training as sh*t bag with no discipline, you'll still graduate as one. 12 weeks does not give someone a magical epiphany of being a better person/more efficient asset. IMO from what I observed those that started strong finished strong, those that satrted weak finished weak. Yes, I understand BCT is just the basics, but this shouldnt be about making minuscule adjustments in BCT. Rather recrtuitng QUALITY people to start BCT in the first place. I understand it's a numbers game, which is why I've always been in favor of a draft. Maybe if our political leaders were drafted they'd understand we hate parades and are a waste of time...
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:13   #18
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Don't be fooled by that article trying to brag about the new sheriff in town that's going to fix boot camp...
...the new sheriff is the one that is downplaying the importance of formal training on throwing a hand grenade.
...the new sheriff is chattering about the changes as though "iron sights" is somehow a broad and sweeping new thing


The social justice approach to national defense has put us in a place where we now think progress is being made because "changes are coming - "soon"
...we (those of us that read this BB) are ecstatic because there is "a long list of changes and tweaks, with an eye toward a full roll-out in late spring" and that list might include teaching soldiers how to shoot a battle rifle with iron sights.

Read that again...
a long list of changes and tweaks, with an eye toward a full roll-out in late spring
One more time...
with an eye toward a full roll-out in late spring

Sometime soon, (not today -not this week or next week - not even next month), our soldiers will start learning how to shoot their primary weapon using the sights !!!

Let that sink in for a second...






Let it sink in just a little deeper........









we are happy about that.
We are happy that iron sights and discipline might find their way into boot camp.

Yet, none of those responsible for such a giant leap backwards have been stuffed inside of a Brazen Bull as penance for allowing our troops to literally FAIL at shooting a gun using the sights or throwing a hand grenade. Someone has failed us in a manner that nears the definition of betrayal.
...and now we are happy


Here is a thought - lets put Hillary Clinton in the White House with supermajorities in the House and Senate.
Lets stop fucking around and let the left have control of our lives instead of this long and drawn out torture we are forced to endure.


Happy-Happy-Happy
...because we have an eye towards iron sights and discipline - but at least "Hammer, Anvil, and Forge" has a nice ring to it




Meanwhile, or a more important note, did you guys hear about the white house aide that was outed as a wife beater?
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Last edited by Box; 02-14-2018 at 10:20.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:42   #19
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Meh-

Quote:
“It depends on which side of the fence you sit,” Frost said. “There are a lot of folks who say we need to go back to drill and ceremony, because we’ve lost a lot of the discipline of what it means to be a United States Army soldier.”

This won’t mean hours set aside for marching around outside their barracks, however, Frost said.

“The drill and ceremony is going to be interwoven — when they move to and from places, drill and ceremony will be dispersed inside of that,” he said. “So the movements won’t just be lollygagging, untactical movements. They’ll actually be executing some drill and ceremony when they move to and from the chow hall, when they move to and from the barracks.”
D&C will be used to reduce lollygagging between the barracks and DFAC because you know D&C is the new tactical movement plan for disciplined warriors. Next thing you know they will be doing bounding and bounding-overwatch from table to table.

The Army stopped producing warriors in BCT/AIT/OSUT when Jody’s infatuation with Irean’s vagina (aka pussy) stopped keeping soldiers in step. (Oh some of the cadence songs I’ve heard that will make a grown man blush )
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Old 02-14-2018, 14:01   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick View Post
Meh-



D&C will be used to reduce lollygagging between the barracks and DFAC because you know D&C is the new tactical movement plan for disciplined warriors. Next thing you know they will be doing bounding and bounding-overwatch from table to table.

The Army stopped producing warriors in BCT/AIT/OSUT when Jody’s infatuation with Irean’s vagina (aka pussy) stopped keeping soldiers in step. (Oh some of the cadence songs I’ve heard that will make a grown man blush )
Let these "good" troops be in the POTUS' Parade Corps.
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Old 02-14-2018, 14:21   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker View Post
Let these "good" troops be in the POTUS' Parade Corps.
Beat me to it! And 100 cross-thread points to ya too!
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Old 02-14-2018, 14:30   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
Don't be fooled by that article trying to brag about the new sheriff in town that's going to fix boot camp...
...the new sheriff is the one that is downplaying the importance of formal training on throwing a hand grenade.
...the new sheriff is chattering about the changes as though "iron sights" is somehow a broad and sweeping new thing


The social justice approach to national defense has put us in a place where we now think progress is being made because "changes are coming - "soon"
...we (those of us that read this BB) are ecstatic because there is "a long list of changes and tweaks, with an eye toward a full roll-out in late spring" and that list might include teaching soldiers how to shoot a battle rifle with iron sights.

Read that again...
a long list of changes and tweaks, with an eye toward a full roll-out in late spring
One more time...
with an eye toward a full roll-out in late spring

Sometime soon, (not today -not this week or next week - not even next month), our soldiers will start learning how to shoot their primary weapon using the sights !!!

Let that sink in for a second...






Let it sink in just a little deeper........









we are happy about that.
We are happy that iron sights and discipline might find their way into boot camp.

Yet, none of those responsible for such a giant leap backwards have been stuffed inside of a Brazen Bull as penance for allowing our troops to literally FAIL at shooting a gun using the sights or throwing a hand grenade. Someone has failed us in a manner that nears the definition of betrayal.
...and now we are happy


Here is a thought - lets put Hillary Clinton in the White House with supermajorities in the House and Senate.
Lets stop fucking around and let the left have control of our lives instead of this long and drawn out torture we are forced to endure.


Happy-Happy-Happy
...because we have an eye towards iron sights and discipline - but at least "Hammer, Anvil, and Forge" has a nice ring to it




Meanwhile, or a more important note, did you guys hear about the white house aide that was outed as a wife beater?
And I was wondering what you meant by your comment elsewhere that Leadership was laser focused and knew exactly what they are doing. Now I get it!
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Old 02-14-2018, 19:29   #23
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Well, I know I'm getting kind of old hand have been out for awhile but there are some things I didn't know about our Army:

There will also be changes in marksmanship training, with recruits required to qualify with iron sight. How long have our basic recruits not been qualifying with iron sights? What happened to the "basics"

starting with codified training for recruits on what it means to be a soldier We quit teaching them about being soldier and what it means??

drill sergeants will evaluate recruits on their discipline, inspect their bunks and bays, and hold drill and ceremony competitions to make sure soldiers are learning how to march, move in a tight formation and handle their weapons in a most basic way This is not already being done? If not why was it stopped? That was basic combat training!

They'll actually be executing some drill and ceremony when they move to and from the chow hall, when they move to and from the barracks So let me understand this; the Drill sgt says to the large gaggle of soldiers "head to the chow hall" and they all just mosey over on their own in whatever gaggle pleases them?

"We also think that if we put the bar where the bar (PT) should be, that bothh the trainees and the drill sergeants will get themselves to that level"
I found the problem. Even the damn drill sergeants can't do any of this stuff! No wonder the need for "drastic" changes.

If a soldier is very close to the 60-60-60 mark, a lieutenant colonel can use discretion to sign off on their PT scores.
Hell, just have the LTC sign of on everyone so everyone gets a participation ribbon and we don't have any losers.

drill sergeants were spending hours at night......teaching trainees how to throw Have been a Drill Sergeant and taken trainees to the grenade range I never spent any hours or minutes at night teaching them how to throw. I never seen a trainee not throw the grenade!

basic training will now add movement to the standard buddy team fire course When was movement taken out of buddy teams? How do you do a "fire course" with a buddy and not move?

the Army is sticking with the 10 week model When did 8 week basic training become 10 weeks (of no basics of marching and non iron sight shooting, no discipline, no buddy movement techniques, no being able to do PT)?


I knew the Army was going down hill but I had no idea it had progressed this far.
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Old 02-14-2018, 21:05   #24
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Quote:
Well, I know I'm getting kind of old hand have been out for awhile but there are some things I didn't know about our Army:
Troops have been able to qualify with the M-68, which is a militarized version of the Aimpoint CompM2, for quite some time now.


A good way to get a feel for whats going on is to peruse the June 2017 edition of "The Soldier's Blue Book"
The first things you will find is the forward, a place for the trainee to write down the chain of command, a place to write down the trainees mailing address, and a complete list of the unit's victim advocate and SHARPS team. The 2008 version was something a Soldier could use. The 2017 edition is just downright bizarre.

Just a quick flip through it will confuse the crap out of anyone that came in during my era.

When I went to boot camp, the Army issued everyone a "SMART" book. You never went anywhere without your smartbook. That little book had everything: the pledge of allegiance, the national anthem, the army song, and all of the other arcane knowledge that troops learn. It also had the task, conditions, and standards for all of the combat takes you needed to learn during boot camp. Putting in a claymore, load-fire-reduce a stoppage, doing a functions check...
...you name it- if the Drill Sgt was going to have you do it - it was in that book.

The current "blue book" looks like a primer for dope smoking hippies. I looked from cover to cover and learned a little about resiliency and found out that during basic training, there is no such thing as a consensual relationship, but I couldn't find anything on how to apply immediate action and remedial action to the M16 series rifle. Maybe the methodologies for training recruits has changed since the mid-80's - who knows.
...but at least the cover photo shows Soldiers throwing hand grenades


Fear not though brave comrades, TRADOC has "a long list of changes and tweaks, with an eye toward a full roll-out in late spring" that should fix everything.
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Last edited by Box; 02-14-2018 at 21:25.
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:56   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dog New Trick View Post

The Army stopped producing warriors in BCT/AIT/OSUT when Jody’s infatuation with Irean’s vagina (aka pussy) stopped keeping soldiers in step. (Oh some of the cadence songs I’ve heard that will make a grown man blush )
Thanks for the reminder! I had a long chuckle and smiling ever since. Ground Week on a long run the Black Hat managed a cadence the entire time ( dedicated to Hanoi Jane)...the things that were said, I realized I wasn't in Kansas anymore!!! The rhythm of that cadence still kicks off in my head from time to time.

I got the impression " Jody" was out of use, when I mention it to younger soldiers they returned a blank look, when I explained it...even blanker looks.

Speaking of those things, a valuable lesson from the Q Course which still is omnipresent, the peer discipline of " Cheeeeeeese". Probably too ugly and mean to still be in use?

Mustang Man although it's been a while we saw a few guys with issues turn into much better people with higher esteem after constant focus ( probably considered abuse today) in basic ie. our " Little Fat Man" he was down right strack when he left...but several that played the game enough to get by and reverted... easy for me to forget how young some of those guys really were.
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Old 02-15-2018, 21:01   #26
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Military Free Fall (HALO) is the same thing as throwing a 'nade.

Not going to use it 99% of the time but it's how you separate the men from the sissies.

Tossing a 'nade is about as a traumatic experience as most "trainees" have yet experienced.

But with the advent of snowflakes/females in combat arms, the 'nade tossing had to go.

Welcome to a kinder, more gentle military.

(Who went to Special Operations Training, SOT when we pulled the pin on a 'nade, let the spoon fly and then tossed it to a buddy who then threw it into the tire pit. )

It was never about the 'nade. It was all about the experience.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:06   #27
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Drop+Grenade never turns out well in the end for the user.

https://www.*******.com/watch?v=Yr2FTwTmz-g
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:40   #28
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Obama legacy the gift that keeps on giving

Anyone ever notice that the more liberals impose their will the more mass killings and crime their is.....stupid libs criminals and the mentally ill just love these useful idiots.

Well throwing Grenades is dangerous and someone has to be the best and for that reason just eliminate it for the sake of the soldiers feelings....not all boys throw baseballs or better yet snowballs, rocks or fisticuffs defending their gender neutral turf....

Myself I dreamed of the day I would crawl up close to a bunker and toss a grenade in and always thought that in trench warfare I could just throw across no mans land into the trench so many activities...are we pulling the grenade from our arsenal?
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:48   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfshooter View Post
Well, I know I'm getting kind of old hand have been out for awhile but there are some things I didn't know about our Army:

There will also be changes in marksmanship training, with recruits required to qualify with iron sight. How long have our basic recruits not been qualifying with iron sights? What happened to the "basics"

starting with codified training for recruits on what it means to be a soldier We quit teaching them about being soldier and what it means??

drill sergeants will evaluate recruits on their discipline, inspect their bunks and bays, and hold drill and ceremony competitions to make sure soldiers are learning how to march, move in a tight formation and handle their weapons in a most basic way This is not already being done? If not why was it stopped? That was basic combat training!

They'll actually be executing some drill and ceremony when they move to and from the chow hall, when they move to and from the barracks So let me understand this; the Drill sgt says to the large gaggle of soldiers "head to the chow hall" and they all just mosey over on their own in whatever gaggle pleases them?

"We also think that if we put the bar where the bar (PT) should be, that bothh the trainees and the drill sergeants will get themselves to that level"
I found the problem. Even the damn drill sergeants can't do any of this stuff! No wonder the need for "drastic" changes.

If a soldier is very close to the 60-60-60 mark, a lieutenant colonel can use discretion to sign off on their PT scores.
Hell, just have the LTC sign of on everyone so everyone gets a participation ribbon and we don't have any losers.

drill sergeants were spending hours at night......teaching trainees how to throw Have been a Drill Sergeant and taken trainees to the grenade range I never spent any hours or minutes at night teaching them how to throw. I never seen a trainee not throw the grenade!

basic training will now add movement to the standard buddy team fire course When was movement taken out of buddy teams? How do you do a "fire course" with a buddy and not move?

the Army is sticking with the 10 week model When did 8 week basic training become 10 weeks (of no basics of marching and non iron sight shooting, no discipline, no buddy movement techniques, no being able to do PT)?


I knew the Army was going down hill but I had no idea it had progressed this far.
This what us who are retiring have been saying about the Obama administration and the downhill of the Army's fighting ability....yes what you see above is directly linked to the SF regiments issues as well
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:28   #30
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This makes the decision a bit more of a head scratcher right... Just from a practical/tactical perspective.

Looking back to 2016... This story was recently updated so I'll bring it back up.

Michael Sargent's story:

Quote:
He and his last remaining partner could make a break for the only open door. Taking that route would expose at least one of them to a deadly injury. Insurgents with the big gun just 25 feet away had a clear shot at the exit.

Or, Sargent could try to land a grenade in the doorway the insurgents used to shoot his teammates.

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/l...#storylink=cpy
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