Old 12-23-2008, 09:39   #1
Marvin Blank
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SEAL O's in SAGE?

A buddy of mine who is finishing up the SEAL Q (post Buds, pre SUT) just informed me that his officers (SEAL officers typically finish a class behind the guys they went to BUDS with, due to a slightly longer training pipeline) are going to SAGE? He seemed prtty sure about it.....any of you guys dialed into SWC know anything about it? If it is true, will it be a shortened version, a la the foreign officers currently doing it? Or will it be a complete Robin Sage, from start to finish? Thanks.
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Old 12-24-2008, 12:36   #2
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I can only speak for when I went but we had SEAL O's observing when we attending meetings with the local leaders, during sage. They just stayed in the back round in civis.
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:21   #3
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I am currently in Delta company, starting SUT in 9 Feb. Myself along with aout 30 others were assigned to Sage detail as "Gs" and OPFOR. In my group, the two SEAL Os were attached with us (They were Gs along with us). Navy Spec Warfare Center is dabbling in different things with their Os to push their ground training along... In my opinion, being Gs wasnt the place for that but they did get a chance to see how things go. They were good dudes and played the game but more than likely they wont be coming back.... at least in the role as a G. They were integrated into some mission planning roles and also led several raids with the assistance of SWC students/ AKA Americans. Their Lt Commander hung out nearby in a SAFE House and checked in periodically to observe and gain some insight as well. These two individuals were strictly an experimentation. HTH. PP


Oh yeah... NSWC is also contemplating sending some enlisted dudes in their pipeline to SUT/CST.

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Old 01-24-2009, 03:12   #4
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Just got word that SEAL O's are going to attend the SUT phase; don't know when they will begin. But, I would imagine that the Ranger Course is the best venue for what they are trying to accomplish (more time available to learn the ground warfare skills that they need).
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:54   #5
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They did say that they realize they are light years behind SF in that realm and NSWC is trying to remedy this. Makes sense.
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:53   #6
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Update on Seals in SFQC

Several Seal O's finished their stint at SUT and did not do well. Well, one did pretty good. The rest did not care about the training, did not listen to instructions from the cadre and essentially acted as if this training didn't really matter to them. It's a shame. I expected better from them. In fact, I expected to see the normal range of performance that you see in any group of trainees - some do well and some don't do as well. But, sadly, as a group, they really sucked. And, I guarantee that it was not because they are incapable. I'm sure that if they had really cared about the training here, they would have done great. But, they simply showed that they didn't care. I've seen international students do better. It really made me shake my head when I got the instructors' feed back yesterday.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:35   #7
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Originally Posted by Basenshukai View Post
Several Seal O's finished their stint at SUT and did not do well. Well, one did pretty good. The rest did not care about the training, did not listen to instructions from the cadre and essentially acted as if this training didn't really matter to them. It's a shame. I expected better from them. In fact, I expected to see the normal range of performance that you see in any group of trainees - some do well and some don't do as well. But, sadly, as a group, they really sucked. And, I guarantee that it was not because they are incapable. I'm sure that if they had really cared about the training here, they would have done great. But, they simply showed that they didn't care. I've seen international students do better. It really made me shake my head when I got the instructors' feed back yesterday.
Sounds like great feedback for their CoC.

If this is an indicator the training is not of any use to then then why waste everybody's time going forward.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:48   #8
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Sounds like great feedback for their CoC.

If this is an indicator the training is not of any use to then then why waste everybody's time going forward.
You are right. But, you know, I at least expected them to display some pride in their branch of service, or their chosen profession and act like the best students out here. Honestly, their attitude was more like "this is a waste of my time ... we are better than this". Then again, they had issues carrying a heavy rucksack and operating without sleep for too long (which I found odd, considering the training they do back at their school house). Look, I felt that they all had the ability to do really great. They simply didn't care and did not show any regard for this course. Some displayed a certain air of superiority. I am hard pressed to imagine any of our guys ever doing something like that in another service course. If they ever did, and it became known to us, you know what would happen.
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Old 03-06-2009, 15:33   #9
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You are right. But, you know, I at least expected them to display some pride in their branch of service, or their chosen profession and act like the best students out here.
Absolutely. I guess those particular tasks were too hard. I'm sure they display similar attitudes back where they came from.

I would not want to make a habit of having those types of individuals around our students, unless of coure, they could serve as an object lesson for the rest as to how NOT to be.
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Old 03-19-2009, 09:33   #10
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Originally Posted by Basenshukai View Post
Just got word that SEAL O's are going to attend the SUT phase; don't know when they will begin. But, I would imagine that the Ranger Course is the best venue for what they are trying to accomplish (more time available to learn the ground warfare skills that they need).
Ranger school is saved for mid-grade NCOs having problems (mostly discipline) on the teams. It is kind of a gut check thing for them, how bad do you wish to be here.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:01   #11
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Originally Posted by Basenshukai View Post
Several Seal O's finished their stint at SUT and did not do well. Well, one did pretty good. The rest did not care about the training, did not listen to instructions from the cadre and essentially acted as if this training didn't really matter to them. It's a shame. I expected better from them. In fact, I expected to see the normal range of performance that you see in any group of trainees - some do well and some don't do as well. But, sadly, as a group, they really sucked. And, I guarantee that it was not because they are incapable. I'm sure that if they had really cared about the training here, they would have done great. But, they simply showed that they didn't care. I've seen international students do better. It really made me shake my head when I got the instructors' feed back yesterday.
Not to berate them...much, but that sounds oh so typical of them. Every time I've had the "pleasure" of being around them, I was not overly impressed. To give them credit, I'm sure they're good at what they do, but IMHO, keep them off land.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:59   #12
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My personal experience is "keep them in the water!" Higher cognitive functions are immediately compromised whenever their gills get dry. Fortunately, they are easily entertained with weight sets and copious quantities of suntan oil. Taken one or two at a time, most are decent enough guys. Unfortunately whenever they have critical mass (three or more) a negative feedback cycle ensues and somebody is going to have to get them out of country and placate the Country Team. Then some ODA has to go in afterwards and rebuild years worth of rapport. Some of the AARs do make bestselling fiction though. Yes, I’m bashing our “sister service”. It comes from years of SF MAROPS and having “the powers that be” deliberately confusing matters by doing direct comparison of apples and oranges. They ain’t us and I don’t want their mission. Nor do I want to clean up the mess they leave whenever they try to do our FID/UW mission. I agree with Basenshukai, send them to Ranger School. Allowing them to attend our courses just encourages further inappropriate comparisons.
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Old 03-27-2009, 13:13   #13
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i was in that SUT class and had a SEAL on my squad. he was open-minded and willing to learn, probably the best of the whole bunch. ironically they did not attend land nav week, which would have really benefited them. as ATL during squad evals, i asked my SEAL to be my backup pace count man. he declined based on the fact that they never did pace count in the woods, only having done it in the mountains!
and they also didn't like patrol bases much. my ensign always fell asleep on security
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Old 03-27-2009, 21:02   #14
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Sounds like to me they are prepping to set up their own UW training.
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Old 03-27-2009, 21:54   #15
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UW

All I can say is if the Seal command wants thier seamen in the fight and conducting UW, then they need to act accordingly. Everyone wants a piece of the SF pie now because it is the best thing going in the two wars. The Seals going to Sage need to learn UW, as well as all of our own guys.
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