Old 07-09-2006, 17:52   #1
Roguish Lawyer
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Vertical Grips

I was discussing this with TS over the weekend and thought I'd start a thread.

Is using a forward vertical grip on a rifle ergonomically superior to supporting the barrel with an upward palm? TS pointed out that when you turn your wrist sideways to grip a vertical grip, you are changing the muscles you are using to support the weight of the front of the weapon -- more forearm and less bicep, I think. Biceps generally are stronger than forearms, so are you creating more work for yourself (and possibly sacrificing some accuracy and wasting energy) by using a vertical grip?

What do you think?
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:01   #2
NousDefionsDoc
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I was trained without them and now I use them. What TS says is right, but I don't grip it hard enough to make a difference between the forearm and bicep (the rifle weighs about 8 pounds - a gurl could hold it). With training you get used to it.

Since I have started using them, I have grown to love them.

They do get in the way of prone and supported at times.

I run mine as far foward as I can. I have arms like an ape.

You can really crank that barrel around in a vicious arc with a VFG too - if the need should every arise to adjust the attitude of someone the ROE don't allow shooting.

I would advise you to get one and give both ways an honest try and see which you like better.
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:03   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I would advise you to get one and give both ways an honest try and see which you like better.
Thanks. I have one now -- pictures here:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...&postcount=310
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:19   #4
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Learn to wear gloves yet?

You have to remember what the tool was designed for, and use it appropriately. They also add a little weight, and you can overload yourself.

I like them for the work I do. others may not.

And the end of the day, it's your bullet launcher.
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:24   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Learn to wear gloves yet?
Not yet. But I am the acorn that becomes the oak!
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:32   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
Not yet. But I am the acorn that becomes the oak!
You will need to with a grip that aggressive. I am using SWMS now. A little expensive, but very, very nice gloves.
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:40   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
You will need to with a grip that aggressive. I am using SWMS now. A little expensive, but very, very nice gloves.
Which ones?

http://www.southwestmotorsports.com/products.htm
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:48   #8
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I am using the Maxgrip NTs. Mostly because of the bangs. Probably more than you need.
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:49   #9
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Thanks, NDD.
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Old 07-09-2006, 18:52   #10
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No problem.
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Old 07-09-2006, 19:00   #11
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I notice that the standing position that is being taught to day is different than what I learned.

We were taught that one should be able to shoot a rifle one handed. That was the foundation of forming a solid shooting platform. The right elbow would be up and the arm pulling the rifle into the shoulder.

I noticed now elbows are down.

The left arm supported the rifle, The upper arm would be snug against the chest, Hand palm up supported the rifle under the mag. We were told having the arm extended was not as stable.

Obviously a fore grip would not be used in this situation. I was trained on the M14. This technique seem to work well with the M16.

Is the new style because of the M4 physical characteristics are that much different?
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Old 07-09-2006, 19:18   #12
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I like vertical foreend grips for CQB rifles.

SWMS is owned by Camelbak now.

TR
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Old 07-09-2006, 22:16   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOLLiS
I notice that the standing position that is being taught to day is different than what I learned.

We were taught that one should be able to shoot a rifle one handed. That was the foundation of forming a solid shooting platform. The right elbow would be up and the arm pulling the rifle into the shoulder.

I noticed now elbows are down.

The left arm supported the rifle, The upper arm would be snug against the chest, Hand palm up supported the rifle under the mag. We were told having the arm extended was not as stable.

Obviously a fore grip would not be used in this situation. I was trained on the M14. This technique seem to work well with the M16.

Is the new style because of the M4 physical characteristics are that much different?
The elbows are down because we got tired of bashing them into doorways.

I think the rest of it can be attributed to different mission and environment. The other 7 are still the same.
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:10   #14
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Personally, I've never liked vertical foregrips. I got out just after my unit switched from the M16A2 to the M4, with all it's attachments, so didn't really have an opportunity to use them in training. I never wanted them on my personal AR-15-type rifles either. They just aren't comfortable.
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Old 07-10-2006, 09:57   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

I run mine as far foward as I can. I have arms like an ape.

You can really crank that barrel around in a vicious arc with a VFG too - if the need should every arise to adjust the attitude of someone the ROE don't allow shooting.
Two groups of thought on that, I was tought, that you want the vertical foregrips as far back as possible, so you get a more supported platform to shoot from. But I have heard that some other units are teaching to have them all the way foreward, so you can acquire targets faster.

I don't have long hands, so keeping it close works for me. Now if I had a 10 inch barrel I might push it out a little.
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