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2017 All Army Small Arms Championship
Old 01-01-2017, 19:02   #1
frostfire
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2017 All Army Small Arms Championship

This year it's 12 through 18 March. So no more loading mags and squeezing with frozen finger! Also no more running* prior to shooting, so you shall witness late 30's and 40's POG and FAG kicking 20 yo 11 series arse
Now you can also change optics between stages (m68 and ACOG). Keep it mind the best overall rifle performance from long range to multigun was done by a certain unit SGM with a funeral detail A2 with irons. "It's the indian, not the arrow"

Fact sheet:
http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/assets...fact_sheet.pdf

EXSUM:
http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/assets...ship_exsum.pdf

Changes:
http://www.usaac.army.mil/amu/assets...am_(final).pdf

*The 1.5 mile run with kit and ammo prior to 25 yards pistol was my favorite. I think that's the only event I ever out shot everyone. Love the cussing and excuses thrown at the end for the "unfair" stage

Let me know if anyone wants to train up at Bragg
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

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Old 01-04-2017, 16:12   #2
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Seriously considering going...but being away from gun for the year previous to that, and I only might make it back to the states in time for the match, it doesn't look good.

My thinking is that it'd probably be better for me to go to a rifle/carbine class, rather than not be able to perform well at the match. There's a 3 day course at TRC 17-19 March.

Since all courses on my leave are all on the same dates as the competition. I think the class is better in my case.
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Old 01-05-2017, 21:43   #3
frostfire
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For sure you will get better training at TRC.
I'm finding dates to take the active shooter/ccw training there myself.

However, if your unit sends you on order to Benning. With per diem and all, All Army would be best bang for your buck! The AMU does give excellent class on surgical pistol shooting
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

INDNJC
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Old 03-10-2017, 22:40   #4
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If you can make it the All Army, it's well worth your time. The equipment allowed has evolved over the years to more closely match what's being used in training and issued. I still think mastering irons should be a prerequisite to using optics, but what do I know...

Below are two other courses I've taken with the AMU that they offer at other times and may be easier to justify as "Train the Trainer" than a competitive event like the All Army. They send you home with slide decks for the courses to take back and teach others in your unit. Helps the "bean counters" see benefits for the entire unit.

The CQM course includes both rifle and pistol shooting. My favorite statement from the instructors was, "You get your breaks when reloading magazines and never show up to the firing line with less than 4 magazines!"
Their SDM course demonstrates the difference in what matters and what doesn't in making an M16/M4 accurate. And if you can follow instructions, you will be engaging targets at 600+ from standing to prone faster than most engage 200m targets starting in the prone.
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Old 03-18-2017, 22:32   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2squared View Post
If you can make it the All Army, it's well worth your time. The equipment allowed has evolved over the years to more closely match what's being used in training and issued. I still think mastering irons should be a prerequisite to using optics, but what do I know...

Below are two other courses I've taken with the AMU that they offer at other times and may be easier to justify as "Train the Trainer" than a competitive event like the All Army. They send you home with slide decks for the courses to take back and teach others in your unit. Helps the "bean counters" see benefits for the entire unit.

The CQM course includes both rifle and pistol shooting. My favorite statement from the instructors was, "You get your breaks when reloading magazines and never show up to the firing line with less than 4 magazines!"
Their SDM course demonstrates the difference in what matters and what doesn't in making an M16/M4 accurate. And if you can follow instructions, you will be engaging targets at 600+ from standing to prone faster than most engage 200m targets starting in the prone.
Absolutely concur with these 2 classes. I was talking with one instructor who spent 10 years in the regiment and he was very passionate in the SDM course (I finished top 7% and outshot him overall ...but I got beat in multigun....)

All things considered, I am starting to see that the championship is just that, a competition and not a conducive learning environment. No crawl, walk, run there. It straight up fly. It serves its function best to reveal deficiency i.e. pistol, wind reading, CQM transition, and so on. I was horrified when the pit boss instructed us not to mark misses on EIC. How the hell one supposed to learn from mistakes? Still, I learned that at certain skill level one should have enough confidence to call dead rear sight/windage and do holdoff, instead of keep blaming self until 7 misses later

Participation was poor and not a single SMU personnel this year. I think it went down hill when the prize table was no more starting in 2009 or 2010.
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

INDNJC
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Old 03-19-2017, 17:19   #6
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FWIW, the link to the marksmanship master trainer course. Wealth of practical info
http://www.benning.army.mil/armor/31...eMaterial.html
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

INDNJC
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2018 Small Arms
Old 03-11-2018, 19:11   #7
frostfire
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2018 Small Arms

edit multiple post
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

INDNJC

Last edited by frostfire; 03-11-2018 at 19:28.
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2018 Small Arms
Old 03-11-2018, 19:24   #8
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2018 Small Arms

Anybody going this week for this excellent validation of training?
Whether you got expert level in military qual or various competition disciplines, I am certain some of the stages will still be humbling. The first year I participated I thought big deal I shot master score at NRA HP. Wrong! That free float 12 lbs match barrel rifle with sling, gloves etc. is not equal rack grade.

Speaking recently to an infantry MAJ at Pentagon level who was adamant irons are obsolete and belongs in competition only left me brokenhearted and digging for nostalgia. Turned out I made the promo vid for 2018 All Army Small Arms
https://www.*******.com/watch?v=lIqBuLVjH7M
Vanity got the best of me so here it goes:
00:53 was the rifle national match course. 28 degrees with wind made it super fun. Just like prior year, I smoked plenty other participants.

1:20 was the multigun pistol stage with dragging 150+ lbs litter. I sure wished I had 20 lbs extra muscle wt and never skipped squat and dead lift days. Despite solid marksmanship, the studs i.e. Rangers smoked me. Still placed top 7% though.

I ran irons A4 in 2017 and irons A2 in 2016 with old issue gear. Nothing high speed as I tried to show joes it's the user not the tool. That A4/A2 with plain jane gear was enough to beat 93% of the competition and placed top or near top place in several categories. With the pervasive stereotype that officers can't shoot worth a damn, I had hoped year after year there would be category for O's. Hey, top down approach for real change, right Alas, no dice!

Having played with several FLEO recently, I realize how much I take for granted military marksmanship training. I understand the mission difference but only qualifying 150m and closer, no movement, no shooting in all kinds of terrain and weather, no solid understanding of ballistics and limitation of various platforms, etc......
Was planning a joint training but neither the advanced drills nor honing solid fundamentals found interest.
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"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

INDNJC

Last edited by frostfire; 03-11-2018 at 19:31.
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Old 03-22-2018, 20:03   #9
Sinister
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This year was my kid's third iteration through. Bucking the trend of (future) officers who don't know one end of a rifle from another he won a Silver in the Combat Rifle leg, a trophy for Cadet Highpower Rifle Champion, and overall High Cadet Aggregate across Combat Rifle, Combat Pistol, and National Match Rifle and Pistol, respectively.

I couldn't be prouder.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f1&oe=5B3F2B7C
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...32&oe=5B42A628

Last edited by Sinister; 03-22-2018 at 20:05.
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Old 03-22-2018, 20:24   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
This year was my kid's third iteration through. Bucking the trend of (future) officers who don't know one end of a rifle from another he won a Silver in the Combat Rifle leg, a trophy for Cadet Highpower Rifle Champion, and overall High Cadet Aggregate across Combat Rifle, Combat Pistol, and National Match Rifle and Pistol, respectively.

I couldn't be prouder.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f1&oe=5B3F2B7C
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...32&oe=5B42A628
Congratulations!
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Old 03-22-2018, 20:27   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
This year was my kid's third iteration through. Bucking the trend of (future) officers who don't know one end of a rifle from another he won a Silver in the Combat Rifle leg, a trophy for Cadet Highpower Rifle Champion, and overall High Cadet Aggregate across Combat Rifle, Combat Pistol, and National Match Rifle and Pistol, respectively.

I couldn't be prouder.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...f1&oe=5B3F2B7C
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...32&oe=5B42A628
Must have had a great teacher.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:34   #12
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Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
This year was my kid's third iteration through.
Congratulations
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:09   #13
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Congratulations, Sinister!!!
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:32   #14
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I would be proud too Sinister Congrats to him!
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:16   #15
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This year was my kid's third iteration through.
Much to respect in that 'never quit' aspect. Congratulations to your son on his achievement! Nothin' like havin' someone say, "oh yeah, by the way I hear El-Tee can shoot."
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