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Old 04-13-2018, 10:01   #16
275RLTW
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Originally Posted by Papa Zero Three View Post
While I have absolutely no love for CAR, there is one thing I am certain of, and that is that Reeves can shoot for real. An Israeli guy (supposedly Mossad) that is in the Hollywood circle taught Reeves all the funky CAR shit, among other fucked up things that show up in movies.

The person who taught Reeves how to shoot for real is Taran Butler ( 3 gun champion). What you see Reeves doing in the movies as far as shooting/weapon manipulation goes is legit, meaning he can do it with real rounds and hit a target. I'm sure many have seen the You tube videos of Reeves shooting and running drills at Tarans range. If you haven't, go check them out. And surprisingly enough, you won't see Reeves using CAR while he is shooting real rounds.
Easy to get hits when you’re shooting full size IPSC targets at 3 feet. His hits at longer targets suck. Run a stage enough times and eventually you’ll get better at it. He’s an actor, that’s his job is to play circus monkey over and over again until the camera gets the right footage.

While Taran is a great shooter, don’t forget how many idiots he chooses to represent him (Amy Jane - busted for stolen valor; Rochelle Hathaway - anti 2A).
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:44   #17
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Originally Posted by 275RLTW View Post
Easy to get hits when you’re shooting full size IPSC targets at 3 feet. His hits at longer targets suck. Run a stage enough times and eventually you’ll get better at it. He’s an actor, that’s his job is to play circus monkey over and over again until the camera gets the right footage.

While Taran is a great shooter, don’t forget how many idiots he chooses to represent him (Amy Jane - busted for stolen valor; Rochelle Hathaway - anti 2A).

Say and believe what you want. However I have been on Taran's range and seen Reeves shoot not only the close targets, but the far ones.....the ones 300+ meters out, up on the hill behind the flat range.

Regardless of the target(s) distance, he can hit the targets with all 3 guns better than most average gun owners out there. Make no mistake, he has put in the work and can run a gun cold.

As far as Taran goes, I know the man personally and he is a genuine nice guy. Those people you mentioned made their own choices and aren't representative of him any more than you are representative of anyone you've known in your life thats done something questionable/objectionable.
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Old 04-13-2018, 13:14   #18
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Say and believe what you want. However I have been on Taran's range and seen Reeves shoot not only the close targets, but the far ones.....the ones 300+ meters out, up on the hill behind the flat range.

Regardless of the target(s) distance, he can hit the targets with all 3 guns better than most average gun owners out there. Make no mistake, he has put in the work and can run a gun cold.

As far as Taran goes, I know the man personally and he is a genuine nice guy. Those people you mentioned made their own choices and aren't representative of him any more than you are representative of anyone you've known in your life thats done something questionable/objectionable.
Based off the videos my opinion still stands. Hitting a large target vs getting consistent A hits are much different things. When Reeves throws on kit and tries it for real then I’ll give him credit. Until then, it’s just a rehearsed show.

I know a Taran as well. Yes, nice guy but chooses money over values.
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Taran Tactical Innovations, lolz
Old 04-13-2018, 19:24   #19
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Taran Tactical Innovations, lolz

Taran Tactical Innovations

Now you’re making me laugh, again. What part of “tactical” does a game shooter teach? He's never faced a armed enemy/criminal? And as was said, he sells his skilz to the millionaires.

Learning from him would be like the fed’s learning from an “Olympic” pistol shooter with zero “tactical” skilz. Oh , wait……………..

As 275RLTW stated, Reeves is just an actor/multimillionaire pretending to be something else.


(He was great in the Matrix series!)
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Old 04-13-2018, 22:40   #20
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Taran Tactical Innovations

Now you’re making me laugh, again. What part of “tactical” does a game shooter teach? He's never faced a armed enemy/criminal? And as was said, he sells his skilz to the millionaires.

Learning from him would be like the fed’s learning from an “Olympic” pistol shooter with zero “tactical” skilz. Oh , wait……………..

As 275RLTW stated, Reeves is just an actor/multimillionaire pretending to be something else.


(He was great in the Matrix series!)

Taran doesn't teach ANY tactics, I don't know why he used that in his business name. I'd assume for business purposes, which kinds of makes sense seeing how a lot of SF guys are running his magazine extenders in Group these days. I mean imagine, what if someone like Rob Latham were to teach Unit/SF guys how to shoot....oh, wait, he did/does.

Reeves may be an actor, but he isn't pretending when it comes to shooting. He runs a gun better than most of the people who consider themselves gun guys.

Neither Reeves or Taran ever claimed to be tactical experts, but each is more than capable of shooting better than the average gun owner.
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Old 04-14-2018, 06:44   #21
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In the videos I watched, Taran did teach tactics. He taught the TTPs of competitive shooting. A competition gun is not a war gun or war system. Would I use my comp pin gun for home defense? If it is the first thing handy, yes, as that environment is nice and clean. Would I use that same pin gun and my old Safariland belt, holster, and mag carrier in a combat environment? Not on your life. I would have lost the pistol and mags upon landing during (pick your infill method, besides walking or an IPSC range "running") and could have taken the belt off and spanked the enemy.

Have someone grab those comp guns and deploy to pick a two-way-shooting range and get out of the FOB and come back and tell us how long he kept them without swapping them out or modifying them.

I had the benefit of receiving competitive shooting instruction and yes you can use some of the TTPs in the work environment -- upper body stance and grip and reloading, but other than that not too much. And it is great to be able to walk the terrain and see where each target is and dry fire on them (for a day in the vid) before you go hot. On one of my shoots I had to engage 20 plates and a Bowling pin (the finisher) and was consistent with 16 sec. runs (2 mag changes). They took me to a different range with same number of plates and pin with no "rehearsal" and I did not do so well. close to double the time. The big difference was on range A I new where the targets were and just concentrated on the front sight on range B I had to look for the target then transition to the front sights.

CAR and other competitive shooting TTPs does provide good entertainment at the movies. Maybe tha Gangtas can use them too.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:37   #22
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The top-level civilian shooting instructors don't try to mix tactics with their instruction because they know their audience. They understand the huge value they provide in teaching guys to shoot more accurately, faster. It sells itself and there is no reason to try to teach "tactics" to the guys that invented and continue to innovate them. It would be awkward to say the least.

I think it's short-sighted to judge guys from outside the military based on how much combat they've been in-or shut them down if they haven't "gone to war." Do you apply the same logic to your sports and conditioning coaches? Climbing guides? Driving instructors, combatives, et al?

I would be very surprised to surprised to hear anyone that's actually spent a day on the range being taught by Leatham, Miculek, Sevigny, Voigt (RIP) etc say that they had nothing to offer them because they weren't tactical. If you're willing to open up to people that aren't in your peer group you'll be amazed at what you might learn.
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:14   #23
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I learned a lot from John Shaw. Competitive shooting does hone the edge. But many of the competition senarios were bogus, unrealistic, and complete fantasy.

Latham (and the rest mentioned) was good but came after I stopped shooting and I did not follow shooting after that.

They now spend thousands on a comp gun and hundreds to thousands on the optics.

The main thing I learned in competition is, a fast C is better than a slow A.
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Old 04-14-2018, 15:00   #24
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Originally Posted by turboprop View Post
The top-level civilian shooting instructors don't try to mix tactics with their instruction because they know their audience. They understand the huge value they provide in teaching guys to shoot more accurately, faster. It sells itself and there is no reason to try to teach "tactics" to the guys that invented and continue to innovate them. It would be awkward to say the least.

I think it's short-sighted to judge guys from outside the military based on how much combat they've been in-or shut them down if they haven't "gone to war." Do you apply the same logic to your sports and conditioning coaches? Climbing guides? Driving instructors, combatives, et al?

I would be very surprised to surprised to hear anyone that's actually spent a day on the range being taught by Leatham, Miculek, Sevigny, Voigt (RIP) etc say that they had nothing to offer them because they weren't tactical. If you're willing to open up to people that aren't in your peer group you'll be amazed at what you might learn.

^^^^THIS^^^

I never heard Latham, Barnhart , Garcia, or any of the other top shooters that were brought out to teach members of my unit ever try to teach tactics,and to be clear, I mean tactics as in military tactics, not competitive shooting tactics. In fact, most of them will tell you up front, at the beginning of the class "I don't teach tactics, that's for you guys to figure out. I'm here to teach you how to improve your shooting"

If you are one of the guys who still buys into the old dogma of "avoid comp shooting, it'll get you killed in the streets", you need to get with the times and recognize that comp shooting is a force multiplier in improving your shooting.

It's not a replacement for sound tactics or combat shooting, they are mutually exclusive. Think of it as weight lifting and cardio, doing both will increase your overall performance, but neither is a replacement for the other.

In fact, you would be hard pressed to find ANY current tactical trainer today( Lamb, Proctor, Pannone, Pat Mac, etc) that will tell you that comp shooting is detrimental to improving ones skills. To quote Pannone,"if you cannot differentiate when you are shooting a competition and when you are in a gun fight and which skills to apply, you shouldn't be carrying a gun". ( video source: https://www.facebook.com/CTTSolution...7058838305688/)


***We have drifted off of the original topic of this thread completely with this line of discussion, which was the question of CAR, not Taran, Reeves, who they're friends with, what the name of their company is, or if they can shoot targets at distance, etc.***

If you wish to pick something apart, it should be CAR, Paul Castle and Aaron Cohen ( Israeli guy who teaches Hollywood this shit) (source: https://www.cherriescounterterror.com/pages/about-us)

Last edited by Papa Zero Three; 04-16-2018 at 17:14.
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Old 04-16-2018, 15:40   #25
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I learned a lot from John Shaw. Competitive shooting does hone the edge. But many of the competition senarios were bogus, unrealistic, and complete fantasy.

Latham (and the rest mentioned) was good but came after I stopped shooting and I did not follow shooting after that.

They now spend thousands on a comp gun and hundreds to thousands on the optics.

The main thing I learned in competition is, a fast C is better than a slow A.


Almost went into the three gun shooing....... then realized just how much of a game it really was......... decided against it when I found out they shoot rounds with just enough powder to cycle the guns. Did watch one or two, was just as amusing as the turkey shoots in NC! (Never won a damn turkey either. )
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Old 04-16-2018, 16:48   #26
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Almost went into the three gun shooing....... then realized just how much of a game it really was......... decided against it when I found out they shoot rounds with just enough powder to cycle the guns. Did watch one or two, was just as amusing as the turkey shoots in NC! (Never won a damn turkey either. )
Yep. The guns a tuned to a lite round and well lubed. I was shooting 180 gn semi-wadcutters in the 45. Tested aluminum rounds for the CAR-15 (before the M4).

Yes, competition was a game and should be observed as entertainment.
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