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Old 01-25-2006, 16:26   #1
Cobra642
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.223 ammo recommendations

I recently purchased a Bushmaster M4A3 as a birthday present to myself and had a question for the experts. I haven't used a .223 round much since basic training in 1981 and don't know much about commercially available rounds.
My questions are:

1) What's a good brand/type of ammo for zeroing and basic range shooting, and

2) What's a good brand/type for having on hand for the next suburban neighborhood insurrection, or for that matter

3) What are brands/types to stay away from.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-25-2006, 17:17   #2
Pete
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.223 ammo

There are some very good weapons/ammo guys who will come along in a bit and give the complete breakdown and a few links.

Not all weapons should fire the 5.56mm while anything that can fire the 5.56mm can fire the .223 round. The 5.56mm is usually loaded to produce higher pressures and a faster round. Check your weapon to be sure it's chambered for 5.56mm Nato or .223 Remington. Bushmasters should be all chambered for the 5.56mm.

Once you get into the 5.56mm you have 55 grain and 62 grain rounds. You'll find other terms like "green tip" British SS 109. Makers include Wolf, Silver Bear (?), Hornady, Remington, Winchester, Federal just to name a few.

I'm not too picky and will shoot the cheapest I can find as I just mainly plink out to 200 meters. Missfires? Only missfires I ever had was with some Egyption 8mm Mauser. Mixed lots and bulk packed.

The M4 has a short barrel and fails to get max pressure/speed out of standard military rounds.
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Old 01-25-2006, 17:44   #3
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Cobra:

You might get a better response if you read the rules, stickies, intros, etc., and introduced yourself in the proper place before asking for help. We have other Snake pilots here who might like to know you.

You might also acquaint yourself with the "Search" button in the upper right-hand corner of the board and check to see if it has been asked before.

Have a nice day.

TR
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:26   #4
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A few links

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

and

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforce...spx?storyid=11

Pete
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:22   #5
Cobra642
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Pete,

Thanks for the links. That cleared a lot of things up.

I guess I should change my question to what 5.56 mm ammo is recommended?

Last edited by Cobra642; 01-26-2006 at 10:27.
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Old 01-26-2006, 11:59   #6
The Reaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra642
Pete,

Thanks for the links. That cleared a lot of things up.

I guess I should change my question to what 5.56 mm ammo is recommended?
Depends on your barrel twist and intended purpose.

TR
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Old 01-26-2006, 13:15   #7
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Kill some time here

Hey Cobra;

you might be able to kill some time here

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff

I just peeked in there but there are a number of links to other areas.

Pete the Plinker

One day I'll tell the story on how I out-shot the Ranger while sitting in the middle of nowhere in Kuwait. He still says I took advantage of his lack of knowledge with the M16.
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Old 01-26-2006, 13:52   #8
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Barrel is a 1 in 9 twist.

Purpose; in no particular order:

1) recreational shooting; plinking.

2) personal defense on mountain property, ie. small brown bear, mountain lion, lunatic mountain fringe element. This would probably include lethality inside 100 yards and reliability. I'm very open to other suggestions.



Pete, Thanks for the link.
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Old 01-26-2006, 14:11   #9
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Any load approximating the issue M193 such as the Winchester Q3131A or Federal American Eagle would be my generic choice.

Look for a 55 grain bullet with a cannelure.

If you want a more expensive precision round, the 62-69 grain match HPs should shoot well in your rifle.

For light game, I would take any of the heavier bullets in a bonded version.

For varmints, the lighter bullets.

For two legged game, the M193 clones should do just fine.

Avoid Wolf and unknown foreign surplus. Others may have a different opinion, this has been discussed here several times if you want to look it up.

I also enjoy the .22 conversion kit for plinking and CB cap use.

TR
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Old 01-26-2006, 14:43   #10
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Thanks again. That info and the link Pete provided was just what I was looking for.
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Old 02-04-2006, 03:56   #11
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Ammo Supply question

After having read this thread and its links, I wonder if it is possible for our Company Commander or his representative to order M193 ammunition when we are deployed?
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Old 02-04-2006, 11:25   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NG_M4_Shooter
After having read this thread and its links, I wonder if it is possible for our Company Commander or his representative to order M193 ammunition when we are deployed?
He has a 1x9" twist barrel. Yours will almost certainly be 1x7", which would likely reduce the accuracy of the M193.

As a military unit, you would be better off trying to request or scrounge the Mark 262 77 gr. OTM rounds, at least, for your better shooters. It is hard to come by and much more expensive than M855 though.

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Old 02-04-2006, 20:14   #13
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Thanks TR. The link below to the 'oracle' leads to a passage on the page that reads : "Simple question: Can I fire M193 ammo in my 1:7 or 1:9 twist barrel?

Yes.

M193 is essentially a "universal" round; able to be stabilized by barrels with twists between 1:14 and 1:7. Point of impact will change slightly compared to an M855 zero, so rezeroing is recommended."



This probably doesn't matter, I am just pondering things. I know that once our guys set foot on the ground they'll get whatever ammo is easiest for the S4 to come by.

As we transition from an Infantry Line company to a dismounted RSTA company, we'll get other weapons eventually. I saw the MTOE, we're supposed to have 2 ea. .50cal sniper sections, and 2ea. 7.62mm (not sure of the weapon system) Sniper sections, along with 4 scout sections, a number of RB17's w/motors & trailers, etc. Should be some nifty schools coming for our guys too.
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Old 02-04-2006, 22:55   #14
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ammo

When you're deployed, you'll probably fing getting anything other than M855 for your M16A2-M4 etc difficult. I would concentrate on getting enough ammunition between now and deployment time to actually train with. Your average troopie will be hard pressed to notice a difference between M855 and M262. Its not a slam, but thier shooting ability just isn't USUALLY at that level. Now, for the ones who can actually shoot (not just think they can..) the heavier 77gr makes a big difference. Just remember hitting the running-not at standard know distance-shooting back at you target is not the same as making sure that you're watching for e-type shilouettes to pop up on the golf course fairway style qual range.


Dave
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Old 02-05-2006, 22:05   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NG_M4_Shooter
After having read this thread and its links, I wonder if it is possible for our Company Commander or his representative to order M193 ammunition when we are deployed?
M-4 Shooter:

I doubt it. A combination of ignorance and bureaucracy. To almost anyone in the Army outside of the type of guy who would read PS.Com, 5.56 is 5.56. I have had to be very specific about something as simple as ensuring I get the appropriate tracer for the ball. M-855 ball and M-856 tracer. If we get M-193 ball, we must get M-196 tracer. Very confusing for even the guy who requests the ammo. They simply don't know there is a difference.

As for the accuracy of M-193 from a 7 turn twist. I have found it to be far more accurate than the issued M-855 'Green Tip' to 300. Sure, the 7 turn twist spins it too fast. However, overstabilizing a bullet is way better than not stabalizing it enough. I have seen some rebuilt M-16A2s shoot M-193 to under 2 minutes consistently to 300 yards. Same M-16A2's with M-855 and you get at least 3 minutes at 300 with one in about eight farther out.

You will see a significant change in zeros between the two issued ball rounds. You won't see it as much at 25 as you will at 300. It's there but you really have to be a good shot and understand what a 25 meter zero does in order to see the difference.

A better option for both types of ammo is a 1/9 twist IMHO. Of course a far better option is a better barrel. Neither are things the Army is about to do so be happy if you get ball to do any training with.

In the Guard, you are more able to get the 77 grain stuff that TR is talking about. That is a real good option for a 7 turn twist. Better bullet, better match with the rifling twist. You see, the Oregon Guard can basically buy commercial ammunition through your SARTS and Rifle Team (if you have either left). No Regular outfit (white side) I know of is able to legally buy commercial ammunition. However, it depends on how willing your chain of command is to fight the ensuing battle!

Gene
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