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Old 07-29-2004, 22:31   #31
Roguish Lawyer
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Welcome, Toby. It is an honor to have you here.
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Old 07-29-2004, 22:44   #32
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Hi Toby,
always good to have another SOGGIE on board!
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Old 07-29-2004, 23:25   #33
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Y'all-

Thanx for the warm welcome. Some of the guys that I hold in the highest esteem are here on this Forum.

Onliiest thing I can say is:It's good to be home.

Later.

Toby
1-2, RT California
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Old 07-30-2004, 05:08   #34
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Hey, Toby! Good to see you!
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Old 07-30-2004, 15:06   #35
TerribleTobyt
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greenhat
Hey, Toby! Good to see you!
Hey Al-

How ya been???????

Toby
1-2, RT California
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Old 07-30-2004, 15:55   #36
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SOG Trivia Question (former members of these teams are NOT eligible to answer!):

There was something unique about RT New York and RT California relative to the other CCC teams. What was it?
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Old 07-30-2004, 16:00   #37
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I wasn't there in the "CCC" time frame but I believe they were Vietnamese teams. Most teams in CCC were "Yard" but I know of one that also had Nungs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
SOG Trivia Question (former members of these teams are NOT eligible to answer!):

There was something unique about RT New York and RT California relative to the other CCC teams. What was it?
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Old 07-30-2004, 16:14   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
SOG Trivia Question (former members of these teams are NOT eligible to answer!):

There was something unique about RT New York and RT California relative to the other CCC teams. What was it?
I know this!!

Both were "Heavy" teams with 3 Americans and 9 Indig. Both carried a B-40 rocket launcher, a mortar, and at least one belt fed gun.


Also, I have heard talk that the One Zeros on both teams were considered to be Crazy by many folks, even in the Recon community.

Last edited by Air.177; 07-30-2004 at 16:16.
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Old 07-30-2004, 16:27   #39
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I am sure you have seen the term ST (Spike Team) as well as RT. In '68 the ST was what you call a "heavy Team". Most teams were Spike Teams and downsized to RT for particular missions. We carried several LAWs (one per member except for the 1-1 on my team). The reference to belt-fed weapons may explain the reference to "Crazy" though Papy Webb always carried an M-60.

On TM Cutlass I begged for and got a then experimental Stoner in LMG configuration.

To start with, because of different security considerations, the Daniel Boone Teams operated as RTs and the Prarie Fire Teams operated as STs.
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Old 07-30-2004, 16:36   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Air.177
I know this!!

Both were "Heavy" teams with 3 Americans and 9 Indig. Both carried a B-40 rocket launcher, a mortar, and at least one belt fed gun.
Ugh. I can't ever remember to ban you from answering these questions! Yes, junior has the correct answer. I am withholding your prize because you weren't supposed to be eligible.
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Old 07-30-2004, 16:38   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by QRQ 30
I am sure you have seen the term ST (Spike Team) as well as RT. In '68 the ST was what you call a "heavy Team". Most teams were Spike Teams and downsized to RT for particular missions. We carried several LAWs (one per member except for the 1-1 on my team). The reference to belt-fed weapons may explain the reference to "Crazy" though Papy Webb always carried an M-60.

On TM Cutlass I begged for and got a then experimental Stoner in LMG configuration.

To start with, because of different security considerations, the Daniel Boone Teams operated as RTs and the Prarie Fire Teams operated as STs.
Thanks for explaining that, QRQ. I always wondered what the heck you were talking about!

How many men on an ST typically?
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Old 07-30-2004, 16:39   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Ugh. I can't ever remember to ban you from answering these questions! Yes, junior has the correct answer. I am withholding your prize because you weren't supposed to be eligible.
As long as I am right, That will be enough for me.

What, Just because I have undergone 20 Years of "indoctrination" and Education, I am being excluded?

Alright, I can deal with that.

Last edited by Air.177; 07-30-2004 at 16:42.
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Old 07-30-2004, 16:41   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Air.177
As long as I am right, That will be enough for me.

What, Just because I have undergine 20 Years of "indoctrination" and Education, I am being excluded?

Alright, I can deal with that.
LOL, there was no prize.
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Old 07-30-2004, 17:30   #44
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Different Strokes

One thing I got from "The Secret Commandos" by Plaster is that he didn't stereotype the teams. Each team was an extension of its 1-0. There was no TOE or PLL for RTs. We carried what WE felt was best for US. If NY and CA were similar it probably had to do more with the ckloseness of the USSF team members. We used to sit around discussing different weapon loads. I had so much sucess with hand grenades that I once, and only once, carried a satchel full. After an hour I was looking for someone to unload them on. For the most part our teams carried LAWs, claymores with time pencils, WP and M-79. Almost all USSF carried a second weapon. A sawed off M-79 was popular. The stock was reduced to a pistol grip.

Again, personalities came into play. Some went looking for trouble -- and usually found it. Others, like me, considered a successful mission one in which we could go in, accomplish the mission and get out without making contact.

I can think of one specific time that I wouldn't be here to talk about it if I were loaded down like the two teams in question. Somehow we RONed in the middle of an NVA CP. We could hear them coming in by two and threes all night. I could hear the challenge and password as well as their radio transmissions. I had a five man team. We were all huddled together in a small cave made by a fallen tree on the hillside. In the morning one of the suckers walked so close to us I could reach out and grab his foot. Thank god it was raining. We managed to slip out of there without a shot. We made it to a ridge on the other side of the valley and called ARTY on them. This was again an in-country operation for the 4th ID. Thjere is no doubt that if we were loaded down like the two teams mentioned we would never have gotten out of that one.

This is in no way critical of people who see things differently. Don Valentine will tell you that if they would've let him he would have operated as a one man team.

For me, recon means :"Snoopin and Poopin". Maybe not very story worthy but I only had one failed mission. Actually it too was a success but I lost a 1-0.
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Old 07-30-2004, 18:01   #45
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QRQ-I am by no means an authority on such things, but the way it was explained to me, was that different teams had different capabilities and missions were assigned to teams based on what would be required of them. An area recon, wiretap, roadwatch etc would obviously be better tasked to a small team as you describe. OTOH, a larger team may be a better choice if the likelyhood of contact with extremely large concentrations of Enemy was expected - I am thinking of one particular incidence AM, Concentric campfire circles, Back me up here - or if a smaller team had discovered a cache site, or other valuable target and lacked the ability to call air or arty on it and wasn't able to destroy it on their own. I have seen limitations on aerial bombardment discussed elsewhere, A "Heavy" team would fill a niche. Just like Hammers, One doesn't use a Brass gunsmith's hammer to drive tentstakes, nor vice versa. Small Recon Teams Would be more likely to go unnoticed, while Large teams could gome in guns blazing if the situation dictated so.

Just My .02
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