Old 06-23-2011, 00:23   #61
Requiem
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Reaper, sir, thank you for the advice.

I've spent the afternoon looking at SPOT devices and the possibility of renting a sat phone. Will be following up with that. Your concerns regarding the boys are very much my concerns (predators, food, general know-how in an emergency situation). I can minimize some of the problem, as you suggested, with a SPOT that would greatly cut the amount of time before help arrives. Predators... I'm not so sure about. Bear spray is what we have for the boys. They cannot handle the .44 and I'm not sure even that is enough for a Kodiak brown bear, but it's what we have. Best option is to find a cabin.

Thank you for your input, I'm taking heed and following through with the SPOT, more training for the boys, and rethinking the food.

v/r
Susan
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Old 06-23-2011, 00:36   #62
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Plato, excellent suggestions. I like the ziploc with dry clothes, especially. Will modify the packing list to include a sterno can or two to use with the tarp. The boys will most certainly be wet if they bail out. They will be wearing wetsuits beneath everything for additional insulation because time in the water is another concern.

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Weight may be of no concern for a large extra bag, if you're talking about getting to shore, even if the "extra goods" are numerous.
Even if it's weightless in the water, wouldn't a large bag be difficult to swim with? I'm worried about how much they can do in waves - thus the smaller size bag. I suppose a larger bag could be used as a life preserver?

Thank you for the "warming tent" idea. It's in the plan now.

v/r
Susan
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Old 06-23-2011, 00:43   #63
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I've read much of the recent thread, wanted to add, FLARES, lots of flares, simple roadside flares, an even dozen for each kid, in Green or Red.

One: Signal, easy to use, Two: They do scare predators, Three: They assist in starting fires. Finding dry fuel will be a challenge, but even in the wettest of conditions, dry fuel is available, teach them how to locate. Four: It gives them something to do, but teach Patience and Resource Management.

edited to add: look for a .45 Long Colt / 410 GA combo - dillinger, revolver, or short rifle stock. Its not a big gun, but it could act as a last act of defiance because the pepper spray only gives the large Kodiak a "Burp" after chewing on a tasty young man.

Also, practice having the kids change out of wet clothes, get under a poncho and start the sterno. This can be done in the back yard, with you and a garden hose. Getting out of wet clothes is laborsome, getting changed is even more tiresome, doing it under your direction is just plain fun, be sure to get it on video.

Practice.....
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Old 06-23-2011, 00:55   #64
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Susan,

Tell us something about your boat. It makes a difference in how and/or why it would sink or you would abandon it. And, also, how easily you could jettison the BOBs if necessary.

As to your list, look at the HeatSheet blankets or bivys instead of the space blanket. You have fire included but need, also, a small grill for a stove. You can't count on them having the ability or resources to make a make-shift one.

Pat
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:59   #65
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Plato, excellent suggestions. I like the ziploc with dry clothes, especially. Will modify the packing list to include a sterno can or two to use with the tarp. The boys will most certainly be wet if they bail out. They will be wearing wetsuits beneath everything for additional insulation because time in the water is another concern.



Even if it's weightless in the water, wouldn't a large bag be difficult to swim with? I'm worried about how much they can do in waves - thus the smaller size bag. I suppose a larger bag could be used as a life preserver?

Thank you for the "warming tent" idea. It's in the plan now.

v/r
Susan
Susan-

To be sure that they can swim (or carry it around for days) with any given bag, have them actually swim (or carry it around for a weekend) with the bag.

The Boy scout merit badge book on wilderness survival would be a good training aid for you and your kids.

Cheers,

TJ
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:14   #66
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Synthetic Insulation

Consider pants and a jacket made with some of the new synthetic Insulations. While many manufactures make them the Patagonia Puff Jacket and Pants are excellent pieces. They still provide aprox. 80% efficiency in warmth when wet, you can walk yourself dry with your body heat ( after imerssion take off all other clothing, don the pants and jacket, even if wet and walk for about 20 min.), they are light weight and very compressible. A hard shell will add additional temp rating.
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Old 06-23-2011, 13:01   #67
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Wet Dog, flares added to the packing list. I love that suggestion. Will also practice with the boys with all the items in their bailout bags. They'd get a kick out of me spraying them with the garden hose.

Have a friend with a Taurus (yeah, I know) 410/45 that she shoots with ease. Wish I had the budget for something similar.

Thank you for the added advice. Will follow through with it.

v/r
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Old 06-23-2011, 13:36   #68
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Tell us something about your boat. It makes a difference in how and/or why it would sink or you would abandon it. And, also, how easily you could jettison the BOBs if necessary.

Pat, just took a look at Heatsheets. They come in bright orange, which is a bonus. Will be getting one for each of us. The small grill is a good suggestion too. Thank you.

Our boat is a 16' Avon, which my husband assures me is nearly impossible to sink. We are traveling 20 miles by water, staying within sight of shore. Will not venture out if seas are greater than 6 feet. Have marine radio, GPS with marine maps, & travel plans will be filed with harbormaster and family.

In the event of an emergency, such as tipping over, we will gather boys and drybagged gear onto the bottom of upturned boat. Then take stock and try to flip it over. Failing that, we'll paddle it to shore as is. I'm still considering where to put BOBs and how to jettison/retrieve them. Suggestions appreciated. Husband is reluctant to tie anything down, fearing entanglement should we tip. I can just picture our BOBs floating away...

Thank you,

v/r
Susan
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Old 06-23-2011, 13:43   #69
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The Boy scout merit badge book on wilderness survival would be a good training aid for you and your kids.
Sten, that's a terrific idea. I have several survival manuals, but one geared for kids would help. (And I will have each boy not only become familiar with his BOB and its contents, but carry it around as well. I'd like them to become attached to these bags as if their lives depended on it. )

Thank you.

Susan
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Old 06-23-2011, 13:44   #70
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Wet Dog, flares added to the packing list. I love that suggestion. Will also practice with the boys with all the items in their bailout bags. They'd get a kick out of me spraying them with the garden hose.

Have a friend with a Taurus (yeah, I know) 410/45 that she shoots with ease. Wish I had the budget for something similar.

Thank you for the added advice. Will follow through with it.

v/r
Susan
Many say, "practice makes perfect". I've always said, "Perfect practice make perfect, you can be practicing it wrong and get perfect at doing it wrong, check fire, correct deficienies when present". As for the weapon, .45LC/410 GA, borrow it from your friend, buy a box of shells, have the boys fire off a few rounds, reload, all while in wet clothes. Don't forget the video.

Also, forward the Grid Coordinates to a few of us in a PM, we'll track you. We know how to do that.
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Old 06-23-2011, 13:47   #71
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Consider pants and a jacket made with some of the new synthetic Insulations.
Golf, now you're talking to the gear junkie in me.

*sigh*

Susan
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Old 06-23-2011, 17:07   #72
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R - SQUAT AND HOLD! When I get back from dinner I'll send you a PM. The advice you've gotten so far WRT BOBs is sound; however, you're making some questionable assumptions about long distance travel and seamanship in an inflatable. P
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Old 06-23-2011, 19:20   #73
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Also, forward the Grid Coordinates to a few of us in a PM, we'll track you. We know how to do that.
Will do. And thank you.


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SQUAT AND HOLD!
I'm feeling the burn.

v/r
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Old 06-23-2011, 20:03   #74
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I'm feeling the burn.

v/r
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Susan - I changed my mind about the PM. I've seen too many other threads/posts here that give me pause to think others may benefit too. Start your education with http://uwtraining.webplus.net/FM%203-05.212.pdf Read at least chapters 6 & 7. Especially the parts about properly stowing gear.

Thumb through the rest of it. Pay attention to the parts about sea states and weather conditions. Don't let the fact that it's talking about Zodiacs throw you - an Avon is just a cheap imitation () everything applies equally. I know whereof I speak - this manual was my "magnum opus" before I retired. I either wrote or edited everything in it.

MOO - You need to re-examine your go/no-go criteria - 20 miles in a 16' inflatable in six-foot seas is an ass-whooooping. Four or more hours of it depending on wind and wave directions. And that's just one way. The ocean is one of the few places where it really can be "uphill both ways". Calculating fuel reserves and run times, especially with weather and sea states is more difficult than it seems. Screw up and if you're lucky enough to make it to land, rescue might show up before the local wildlife gets too hungry. And we won't even discuss the issues if you have to beach/launch through surf - something that might not be avoidable if you lose the outboard for any reason.

Stop thinking wet suit for survival/comfort and look at dry suits - specifically tri-laminate versions. DUI makes some decent ones for a reasonable price. Get the sock feet and wear sea boots or similar for walking. You will die of hypothermia faster in a wet suit than you will in a dry suit, dry suits provide significantly greater bouyancy, and when worn properly, they are MUCH warmer and far less restrictive than a wet suit.

Spend the money and get the Seal Line Guide Bags for everyone. http://www.windrosenorth.com/product...&cat=&apparel= (Not necessarilly from this source.)

The shoulder straps make it easier to secure in the boat, easier to hang onto in the water, and easier to transport on land. Besides - in the situation you're describing - why limit yourself to a BOB when you're just as likely to lose it as you are a ruck? NTM - bigger bag holds more stuff with correspondingly greater reserve bouyancy.

Just a few additional considerations that will hopefully give you a lot of "food for thought". In reality - these pointers are just the tip of the iceberg - literally.

HTH
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Old 06-23-2011, 23:10   #75
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Just a few additional considerations that will hopefully give you a lot of "food for thought". In reality - these pointers are just the tip of the iceberg - literally. HTH
Peregrino, you have indeed given me food for thought. I will be reading and heeding your advice. Have downloaded the manual and commenced my education. Will be researching drysuits and drybags as well.

Thank you, everyone, for the advice and words of wisdom.

v/r
Susan
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