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Old 01-29-2007, 13:05   #16
Red
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So you feel that compression bandages have no use in battlefield medecine?
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Old 01-29-2007, 13:18   #17
swatsurgeon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
So you feel that compression bandages have no use in battlefield medecine?
Absolutely not...I was referring to the cinch tight elastic 'tourniquick'. I didn't see the 'bandage' on the web site referred to. The thing I am referring to is a 1-1.25 inch wide rubber band with hooks on the ends. I received 2 of them as samples when I did a head to head on all civilian available tourniquets and the 1st one snapped in half when I stretched it to occlude blood flow around a leg and the second failed to reduce arterial blood flow as assessed by doppler despite it being on what I considered maximum tension. It also does not follow the guidelines specified by DOD for specs that all tourniquets should have. We have learned most of the valuable material in the civilian world on tourniquets from the DOD as well as compression dressings. Most are simply big 'sponges' that are really good at absorbing the patients blood and really poor at applying directed pressure over the bleeder.. For exposed tissue that needs containment, apply a pressure bandage, for big bleeding apply a tourniquet.

and BTW Red, do watch how you phrase questions here, we do deal on a 'higher' playing field, we are not amateurs and questions like you posed are potentially inflammatory. You should ask yourself why a trauma surgeon or 18D, or other field medic here is here at all....experience, experience, experience. Battlefield use of a compression dressing has indications, I would never argue that. Asking me if they should be used is paramount to asking if a sidearm should be carried when someone has a long gun.
Read, listen and ask when no answers are found with the search button and before you ask it, ask yourself how it will sound to the moderators and those active and retired that are the basis of this site.

ss
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'Revel in action, translate perceptions into instant judgements, and these into actions that are irrevocable, monumentous and dreadful - all this with lightning speed, in conditions of great stress and in an environment of high tension:what is expected of "us" is the impossible, yet we deliver just that.
(adapted from: Sherwin B. Nuland, MD, surgeon and author: The Wisdom of the Body, 1997 )

Education is the anti-ignorance we all need to better treat our patients. ss, 2008.

The blade is so sharp that the incision is perfect. They don't realize they've been cut until they're out of the fight: A Surgeon Warrior. I use a knife to defend life and to save it. ss (aka traumadoc)

Last edited by swatsurgeon; 01-29-2007 at 13:35.
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Old 01-29-2007, 13:19   #18
mugwump
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red
So you feel that compression bandages have no use in battlefield medecine?
How do you infer this from "An Israeli bandage costs about the same and will do more..."?

Click on "swatsurgeon" over his avatar > "find more posts by swatsurgeon" and do some reading. It's not just a handle; he's a real live SWAT surgeon.

ETA: swatsurgeon was nicer, and firster.
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Old 01-29-2007, 13:32   #19
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Originally Posted by Red
The VOK is still offered, but out of stock. Tactical Response doesn't do back orders so anything out of stock in the store is taken off the site.
Red:

Do you have any commercial affilitation with this vendor or the products mentioned?

You are coming across pretty strongly as a new member when dealing with a trauma surgeon who is a member of the staff here.

Be a real shame for you to be prevented from posting here again. I would watch my tone in the future. Good luck.

Have a very SF day.

TR
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Old 01-29-2007, 18:02   #20
Peregrino
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Red - According to your profile you're a 16 y/o high school student. Do not post again for 30 days. Then confine yourself to innocuous subjects, e.g. happy birthday wishes. If you have a question use the search button. This is NOT Myspace.com or an Airsoft forum. Peregrino
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Old 01-29-2007, 19:47   #21
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FWIW, the Tourni-Kwik (or however it's spelled) having gotten progressively better. I'm guessing that SwatSurgeon had the TK II and they're now up to TK IV.

I've not seen the TK IV yet, but it is apparently a woven mat'l and far more robust. I have some of the TK IIIs, which are about 3" wide, and have played with them a fair bit.

I cannot reliably occlude bloodflow on my legs (i.e., no matter how I put the TK on, I can still feel a distal pulse), I can apply it to my arm such that I cannot feel a radial pulse.

They have to my mind two saving graces; 1) they're small enough that one can fit them into a pocket kit (wrapping the strap around the hooks) and, 2) I find them fairly easy to apply with one hand (though it's perhaps worth noting one of my training buddies does not and far prefers either the MAT or the NATO TQ.)
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Old 01-29-2007, 20:08   #22
swatsurgeon
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I finally found the cinch tight compression bandage....same problem. We tore the hooks right off, just like their tournikwik. Haven't seen their new and improved version but would be happy to T&E it in our class.
I saw this on a website and wondered which U.S. Special Forces group is 'fielding' this???????

Cinch Tight Bandage

View More Images... Image 2 | Image 3
NSN: 6510-01-503-2109

Six first aid products in one, the Cinch Tight is designated as the Standard Combat Dressing by the U.S. Marine Corps and is currently fielded by U.S. Special Forces. For First Responders , Military, Law Enforcement and related fields it provides a fast, effective tool for many kinds of traumas and injuries (particularly those involving arterial bleeding in extremities).

When removed from their vacuum pouches the bandage expands and returns to its original shape. When unrolled the coverage area for the thick 8"x10" absorbent pad can be seen. All bandages have a coated steel tension hook or brushed aluminum hook sewn on the side away from the absorbent pad, and Velcro strips at both ends of the bandage for easy anchoring and attachment.

At-A-Glance:
- New Emergency First Aid for trauma
- Simple deployment and use
- Stops Moderate to Severe Hemorrhaging
- Engineered to meet the needs of the User and First Responder
- Multi-Purpose: Replaces current single ABD Pads, elastic bandages, wraps, triangular bandages, etc.
- Self-Help for all trauma needs: military, law enforcement, sports, hunting, backpacking, etc.
- Vacuum packed for small, easy storage


ss
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'Revel in action, translate perceptions into instant judgements, and these into actions that are irrevocable, monumentous and dreadful - all this with lightning speed, in conditions of great stress and in an environment of high tension:what is expected of "us" is the impossible, yet we deliver just that.
(adapted from: Sherwin B. Nuland, MD, surgeon and author: The Wisdom of the Body, 1997 )

Education is the anti-ignorance we all need to better treat our patients. ss, 2008.

The blade is so sharp that the incision is perfect. They don't realize they've been cut until they're out of the fight: A Surgeon Warrior. I use a knife to defend life and to save it. ss (aka traumadoc)

Last edited by swatsurgeon; 01-29-2007 at 20:19.
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Old 03-27-2007, 16:55   #23
swatsurgeon
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I just got a cinch tight 'H' bandage and played with it some on my self.
Similiar to an israeli bandage(IB) but a few improvements, IMHO.
The "H" is faster to get the elastic bandage around and when using it on one thigh and an israeli bandage on the other, I was able to get the H tighter than the IB. The elastic is improved and I did feel that the compression aspect was better. It is not a tourniquet per say but either is the IB but when twisting the very thick and sturdy "H" it compressed better than the IB.
The torture test:
I broke both plastic/polymer pieces on the IB and could not crack/break the "H" on the other, +1 point for the H
On re-wrapping the IB, there is no elastic recoil and infact it seems 'pulled out' and did not offer any added compression benefit that an elastic bandage can offer, the H bandage did have this, +1 point for the H
The IB comes in 2 widths, as far as I know the H comes in only 1. No loss of points but 2 sizes is a nice option...taking up less real estate is a plus. And you can put one small one on every operator, the larger ones, despite being vacuum packed/shrunk, still takes up more space. If they would/do offer 2 sizes, it would improve utility and choices.
I use the IB for alot of things like a sling, compression bandage, burn covering, large open wound coverage, to hold splints in place, and that brings cost into play since I use alot of them. I have no idea at this point what the H costs but the IB is ~$4.50 for the 4" and ~$6 for the 6" version.
Overall, I liked the H bandage, pending cost analysis.

Secondly, I have been in contact with the quikclot people and am waiting to hear from a surgeon that has done further testing on their "cooler" version. I received a copy of his manuscript to be ?? published in the Journal of Trauma. The temperature ranges around 110 degrees rather than >220. I have more reading to do and have samples of the new formula and will be testing it both in and out of the operating room. More to follow on this subject.....certainly want to give it a fair shake now that the thermal issue is resolved.

ss

just found the price of $8 each for the H bandage.....
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'Revel in action, translate perceptions into instant judgements, and these into actions that are irrevocable, monumentous and dreadful - all this with lightning speed, in conditions of great stress and in an environment of high tension:what is expected of "us" is the impossible, yet we deliver just that.
(adapted from: Sherwin B. Nuland, MD, surgeon and author: The Wisdom of the Body, 1997 )

Education is the anti-ignorance we all need to better treat our patients. ss, 2008.

The blade is so sharp that the incision is perfect. They don't realize they've been cut until they're out of the fight: A Surgeon Warrior. I use a knife to defend life and to save it. ss (aka traumadoc)

Last edited by swatsurgeon; 03-28-2007 at 13:34.
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Old 03-28-2007, 13:55   #24
52bravo
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the other week i test out the ACS vs ACS+ and it dont get as hot ass the old one. also it works as good.

the H cost 8.25$ for one.

also take a look at the OALES Bandage, no plastic for you to brake.
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Old 04-09-2007, 08:44   #25
52bravo
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i have just see the oales cost 7.95$ so it less the the H.

http://tacmedsolutions.com/oales.htm

i like i put 3 things in one ("ACS" + gaze + bandage ).
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