Old 10-12-2019, 03:58   #1
(1VB)compforce
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Renewable Energy

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Originally Posted by CSB View Post
But that is true of all "pollution free" electric cars.

They don't remove pollution, they just move the pollution somewhere else.
In California, over 10% of electricity, however generated, is lost in the transmission lines and transformers before it actually flows into the cars battery, is stored, and then withdrawn as power.

Even at the last stage ... from the charging stations cable into the car battery,
then out of the battery to the electric motor turning the wheels ... 40% of the electricity is wasted.
The above is a quote from the California Power Thread. I wanted to respond, but it's an entirely different topic. I didn't want to distract from the other.

Quote:
If You Want ‘Renewable Energy,’ Get Ready to Dig
Building one wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2,500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of plastic.
By Mark P. Mills
Aug 5, 2019

“Renewable energy” is a misnomer. Wind and solar machines and batteries are built from nonrenewable materials. And they wear out. Old equipment must be decommissioned, generating millions of tons of waste. The International Renewable Energy Agency calculates that solar goals for 2050 consistent with the Paris Accords will result in old-panel disposal constituting more than double the tonnage of all today’s global plastic waste. Consider some other sobering numbers:

A single electric-car battery weighs about 1,000 pounds. Fabricating one requires digging up, moving and processing more than 500,000 pounds of raw materials somewhere on the planet. The alternative? Use gasoline and extract one-tenth as much total tonnage to deliver the same number of vehicle-miles over the battery’s seven-year life.

When electricity comes from wind or solar machines, every unit of energy produced, or mile traveled, requires far more materials and land than fossil fuels. That physical reality is literally visible: A wind or solar farm stretching to the horizon can be replaced by a handful of gas-fired turbines, each no bigger than a tractor-trailer.

Building one wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2,500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of nonrecyclable plastic. Solar power requires even more cement, steel and glass—not to mention other metals. Global silver and indium mining will jump 250% and 1,200% respectively over the next couple of decades to provide the materials necessary to build the number of solar panels, the International Energy Agency forecasts. World demand for rare-earth elements—which aren’t rare but are rarely mined in America—will rise 300% to 1,000% by 2050 to meet the Paris green goals. If electric vehicles replace conventional cars, demand for cobalt and lithium, will rise more than 20-fold. That doesn’t count batteries to back up wind and solar grids.

Last year a Dutch government-sponsored study concluded that the Netherlands’ green ambitions alone would consume a major share of global minerals. “Exponential growth in [global] renewable energy production capacity is not possible with present-day technologies and annual metal production,” it concluded.

The demand for minerals likely won’t be met by mines in Europe or the U.S. Instead, much of the mining will take place in nations with oppressive labor practices. The Democratic Republic of the Congo produces 70% of the world’s raw cobalt, and China controls 90% of cobalt refining. The Sydney-based Institute for a Sustainable Future cautions that a global “gold” rush for minerals could take miners into “some remote wilderness areas [that] have maintained high biodiversity because they haven’t yet been disturbed.”

What’s more, mining and fabrication require the consumption of hydrocarbons. Building enough wind turbines to supply half the world’s electricity would require nearly two billion tons of coal to produce the concrete and steel, along with two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. More than 90% of the world’s solar panels are built in Asia on coal-heavy electric grids.

Engineers joke about discovering “unobtanium,” a magical energy-producing element that appears out of nowhere, requires no land, weighs nothing, and emits nothing. Absent the realization of that impossible dream, hydrocarbons remain a far better alternative than today’s green dreams.

Mr. Mills is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a partner in Cottonwood Venture Partners, an energy-tech venture fund, and author of the recent report, “The ‘New Energy Economy’: An Exercise in Magical Thinking.”
- Appeared in the Wall Street Journal, August 6, 2019, print edition.

When I saw this article I had to keep it. So often I hear "That SUV you're driving is ruining the Earth" To which my response is that they had to dig up more than 10X as much raw material to make the battery for that little car than they did to build my entire engine. The reason renewable energy isn't actually renewable is because it can't be used to make all of the pieces required for replicating itself, let alone the delivery.

Renewable energy advocates will say it's a matter of scale, that when there are enough renewable sources, they will hit a tipping point. Once there, it will be able to be used to manufacture the components and become self-sustaining. The problem with that argument is that the entire world will have to be stripped of rare materials to get to that point. Thus the interest in farming materials from asteroids. But that's another whole topic.
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Old 10-12-2019, 06:50   #2
Old Dog New Trick
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All of it from corn ethanol to the materials mentioned above require more energy (Fuel, Steel, Manufacturing and Distribution) to acquire than even the most fuel inefficient vehicles on the road.

And there’s the “safe” disposal costs for what is otherwise a poisonous byproduct when assembled.

AOC may be on to something with her Green New Deal. In order the save the planet; we first have to destroy it! (Maybe that will only take twelve years and Greta and her teenage friends should really be partying like it’s 1994.)
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:46   #3
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The only thing Green about Green Energy is our Greenbacks that are used to develop and sell it. Thanks for sharing that article from the WSJ. Now I am going to share it.
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Old 10-13-2019, 14:35   #4
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4th generation nuclear power solves the supposed climate change problem.
Bill Gate's company Terrapower already has designs, but needs to navigate the red tape to move further.

It's clean and safe.
But, leftists don't want clean safe abundant power, they want humans to suffer for desecrating Gaia.

The leftists use politics and science to hide the fact that they are actually practicing a religion.
They are just a bunch useful idiots to those who would impose tyranny.
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