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FT 7.62-A-2
Old 08-29-2018, 21:02   #1
CSB
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FT 7.62-A-2

Almost 15 years ago I posted this in a sister SOC thread:
Quote:
As a lieutenant/captain, I used to carry at the top of my ruck an ammo can, not the thin one from the 7.62 MLB 1-4, but the fat one like for the 5.56. Inside was a Ranger Handbook, Pathfinder Handbook, Jumpmaster Handbook, SAVSERSUP3 with trigraphs (SF commo stuff), GTA's on everything I could steal from the TASC (Demo Card, Mine Card, Bridge Card, Route Recon Card, etc.), a pilot's E6B calculator, firing tables for the M60 MG and the 81mm mortar, a bunch of those little green "memorandum" notebooks, pens, pencils, grease pencils, a spare compass, spare flashlight bulbs, earplugs, a slide rule (later a calculator when calculators were invented), tracing paper, map sheets, P38 can openers, and so on. I called it my "magic box."

Whenever a need arose, I could drop to one knee and somebody could lift the top flap on the ruck and open the "magic box," get what we needed, then reseal the box. It was totally waterproof, and even floated.

It has been through Ranger, Pathfinder, Special Forces, to Korea, Israel, Somalia, twice to Honduras, Roosevelt Roads PR, twice to FRG (when it was still FRG), and a bunch of stateside operations/ exercises.

Even when I became a LTC Judge Advocate senior staff officer, I carried my Magic Box. It's still in my garage. It probably belongs in a museum.
This weekend I was cleaning out the garage and there it was, covered in cobwebs and dirt. I literally had to hose the coating of spider webs, ant nests, roach shit off of it. But when I opened it, it was as good as new.

And there was one firing table I'll bet the 18B's haven't seen: FT 7.62-A-2.

Yes gentleman, that's the Firing Table for the 7.62 mm M-60 Machine Gun, when used in the tripod indirect fire mode. If you ever wanted to know why the pig has machined flats on top of the replaceable barrel, this is it. So you can lock the M-60 into a tripod, cinch it down, and adjust elevation with a gunners quadrant (see image attached) and fire the machine gun in an indirect fire mode, as if it was artillery, from defilade or behind fortifications, or over the heads of friendly forces in more or less safety (YMMV).

When you have more ammo than air support ...
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Old 08-29-2018, 22:55   #2
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Where are your 106 tables
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:00   #3
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Where's the pig?
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:21   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSB View Post
Almost 15 years ago I posted this in a sister SOC thread:

This weekend I was cleaning out the garage and there it was, covered in cobwebs and dirt. I literally had to hose the coating of spider webs, ant nests, roach shit off of it. But when I opened it, it was as good as new.
Outstanding find..

Unfortunately, it's being replaced by the following
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:31   #5
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GTA's - don't leave the isolation area without them.

When a Team was being ARTEPed the higher loved to send them a message like "classify bridge vic...." or "route recon ....."
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E6B?
Old 10-08-2018, 14:25   #6
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E6B?

May I briefly ask what the E6B was used for? (still have one in my flight bag, as well as my Dad's)
Is this a Pathfinder thing? Also, if it was a commonly carried item for just a variety of calculations, did anyone ever carry the circular (smaller/lighter) Jeppesen whiz-wheel?

Thanks for sharing the story (and the M60/tri-pod info); pretty neat.
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Old 10-08-2018, 18:32   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger52 View Post
May I briefly ask what the E6B was used for? (still have one in my flight bag, as well as my Dad's)
Is this a Pathfinder thing? Also, if it was a commonly carried item for just a variety of calculations, did anyone ever carry the circular (smaller/lighter) Jeppesen whiz-wheel?

Thanks for sharing the story (and the M60/tri-pod info); pretty neat.
It's an all-in-one flight calculator. You can find density altitude, time/speed/distance calculations, wind drift, ground speed depending on head/tail wind, mach number (if you need it), fuel burn, etc.
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Old 10-08-2018, 19:27   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSM View Post
It's an all-in-one flight calculator. You can find density altitude, time/speed/distance calculations, wind drift, ground speed depending on head/tail wind, mach number (if you need it), fuel burn, etc.
Roger Pat, I know that part, used one all the time. Just curious as to its role being in CSB's "magic box." Suppose it could be useful as well for stuff related to airdrop resupply or... I dunno. Just curious. (and yeah, I always had it even after the wife got me one of those little pocket electronic things as a present when I finished my instrument ticket - don't trust batteries.)
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Old 10-08-2018, 20:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSB View Post
Almost 15 years ago I posted this in a sister SOC thread:
Quote:
As a lieutenant/captain, I used to carry at the top of my ruck an ammo can, not the thin one from the 7.62 MLB 1-4, but the fat one like for the 5.56. Inside was a Ranger Handbook, Pathfinder Handbook, Jumpmaster Handbook, SAVSERSUP3 with trigraphs (SF commo stuff), GTA's on everything I could steal from the TASC (Demo Card, Mine Card, Bridge Card, Route Recon Card, etc.), a pilot's E6B calculator, firing tables for the M60 MG and the 81mm mortar, a bunch of those little green "memorandum" notebooks, pens, pencils, grease pencils, a spare compass, spare flashlight bulbs, earplugs, a slide rule (later a calculator when calculators were invented), tracing paper, map sheets, P38 can openers, and so on. I called it my "magic box."

Whenever a need arose, I could drop to one knee and somebody could lift the top flap on the ruck and open the "magic box," get what we needed, then reseal the box. It was totally waterproof, and even floated.
CSB,

Even with manuals, TTP's, AAR's etc. nothing beats an "old hand" explaining how we did something, and most importantly WHY. As an example is your "magic box," I was just thinking how much institutional knowledge is lost every 20-30 years.

Hard times in 62-65, as all WWII were retiring (they even tried in retreads (WWII E7 promoted to E8) to try and fill the gap.... didn't work... Different Army. (Theirs enlisted were grammar school and some HS grads). 1962 had most HS grads, and many Jr/4yr college. The Sputnik era.

Army in 82-85 had its problems, when those that "saved" the service from the 1970's (race, drugs, etc.) were retiring. Norman Schwarzkopf wrote about this in his autobiography.

I suspect that the same was true in 1985/2005, and will be in 2005/2025.

It's good to know that we are preserving more than we did, and that the "old hands" are around longer giving their sage advice.

SnT
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Old 10-08-2018, 20:35   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger52 View Post
(and yeah, I always had it even after the wife got me one of those little pocket electronic things as a present when I finished my instrument ticket - don't trust batteries.)
Ah, I didn't read back over the posts. When I got my dispatcher's ticket, my FAA examiner for my oral exam was new and had only done ATPs at this level. I was his first Dispatcher (same written and questions as ATP). I had a new electronic E6B and when I whipped it out he asked me if I had a prayer wheel. I told him no, that this is what I used. He asked what would happen if the battery went dead. I told him that I'd walk downstairs to TWA's gift shop and buy a new battery.
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Last edited by PSM; 10-08-2018 at 20:38.
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:47   #11
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Originally Posted by PSM View Post
I told him no, that this is what I used. He asked what would happen if the battery went dead. I told him that I'd walk downstairs to TWA's gift shop and buy a new battery.
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- Claire Wolfe (and that was back in 1999)

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Old 10-09-2018, 05:57   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf n Turf View Post
...I was just thinking how much institutional knowledge is lost every 20-30 years.....
I remember reading in the Army Times after Bright Star 83 that one of the biggest lessons learned was that if you put too much oil on your weapon in the desert it would get fouled up by dirt and sand.

The Military never remembers - it's always "first time" every time they do something.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:17   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSB View Post
.And there was one firing table I'll bet the 18B's haven't seen: FT 7.62-A-2.

Yes gentleman, that's the Firing Table for the 7.62 mm M-60 Machine Gun, when used in the tripod indirect fire mode. If you ever wanted to know why the pig has machined flats on top of the replaceable barrel, this is it. So you can lock the M-60 into a tripod, cinch it down, and adjust elevation with a gunners quadrant (see image attached) and fire the machine gun in an indirect fire mode, as if it was artillery, from defilade or behind fortifications, or over the heads of friendly forces in more or less safety (YMMV).

When you have more ammo than air support ...
When the M60 was being phased out in the late 80s early 90s, the army wanted to saw to replace the 7.62 as a crew served weapon. Someone at Ranger Regiment (as my understanding went) decided that was a bad idea and competed 7.62 LMG.

I recall:
M60E3 (USA)
MG3 (GER)
MAG58 (BEL)

they were probably a few more but those were the ones I remembered.

They selected the MAG58 and redesignated it the M240G.

One of the selling points of the MAG 58 was the indirect fire kits that came with it. I remember it came with special sights and aiming stakes. It could be set up in defilade and the squad leader could spot over the hill and direct the guns.

I was not part of the testing as I had just left a weapons squad when I got promoted to E5 and went to a line doggie squad.

Addendum: FM 23-67 Machinegun 7.62-MM, M60, Dated Feb 1984, never mentioned indirect fire mode. It only mentioned plunging fire, presumably in the direct fire mode.
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Last edited by miclo18d; 10-10-2018 at 08:51.
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