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-   -   Histroy of the Special Forces Medic - Justin Barr (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20780)

Scimitar 12-03-2008 17:29

Histroy of the Special Forces Medic - Justin Barr
 
Hello Gentlemen,

In 2005 Justin Barr was awarded the project for developing a work on the History of the Special Forces Medic.

I have traded a few emails with Justin and he advices that the manuscript is currently in for review with the Army. So hopefully it may be published relatively soon.

I have asked Justin if he might be able to provide us with some sort of brief to wet our appetites.

I will keep you posted

Scimitar

alright4u 12-03-2008 21:27

RE: SF Medic History/Book
 
[QUOTE=Scimitar;238081]Hello Gentlemen,

"In 2005 Justin Barr was awarded the project for developing a work on the History of the Special Forces Medic."

Think it was about 2001 when Len Blessing contacted me about writing a book about SF medics. I put him in touch with some SF medics . I have never read his book.

I have never read any of Plaster's books or even Tilt Myers book, or any of the others to include Harve Saal's. Harve was quite a character. Hopefully, this man will include the medics of today as they certainly deserve our respect as do all in SF from the beginning to today.

I am alive today because of our SF medics who pulled me out of shock.

Scimitar 12-04-2008 01:36

I personally really enjoyed Len Blessings book. Closed the deal for me wanting to pursue SF-18D.

I have heard a rumor that he's bringing out a "Part II" but can't find any mention of it anywhere.

Soft Target 12-04-2008 07:50

I'm glad that Len Blessing's book got published. I'll look for it. I was in contact with him around 2001 and provided him some stories; don't know if any made it to print.

Scimitar 12-07-2008 04:16

Blurb
 
Here's a brief from Justin Barr. He tells me that in its current form the manuscript is about 200 double spaced computer pages long; looking forward to it being a good read.

Quote:

Special Forces (SF) medics have been saving lives on and off the battlefield for fifty-five heroic years as part of the US Army, yet to date there is no systematic account of their exploits, analysis of their training, or recording of their voices. This monograph fills that void. It describes the transition from covert operations in World War II to the 1952 Special Forces and the meager medical assets there involved. The work goes on to detail the development of the SF medic and recount his experiences in the jungles and rice paddies of Laos and Vietnam. It later elucidates the connection with the Physician's Assistant movement and examines their evolution from a basic field medic in the early years to the modern physician substitute saving lives in Afghanistan today. While many opportunities exist to explore the social and cultural history of this unique position, this work confines itself to studying the role within the confines of the Special Forces through archival sources and oral histories. There is, of course, no single experience but rather thousands of individual episodes, and this book may well recount specific events differently than some recall. The author can only offer an attempt to synthesize and synergize the history to present the most complete version.

Scimitar 07-17-2010 17:02

Sit Rep
 
Dear ****

As of a few weeks ago, MSG Sammy Rodriguez (Ret.), who now works for the Center for Army Lessons Learned, was trying to get it published electronically as one of their products. I called him today to check on the status; I'll let you know what I hear as soon as he gets back to me.

whocares175 10-10-2010 14:37

just got len blessing's book. i plan on reading it on rotation in colorado. any word when justin barr's book will be out?

Scimitar 03-16-2011 00:11

Update
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's an update. Mr Barr would appreciate some feedback.

S



Quote:

Dear Mr. *******, Thanks for checking back with me.

[Edited]

It has now been nearly 5.5 years since I have submitted my final manuscript, and various bureaucratic hurdles have continued to preclude publication via SOCOM. As such, I have decided condense the piece and publish it in an article format. I have attached a very rough draft of the article herewith. Realistically, this is still too long to publish even in an academic journal, so I will probably split off the theoretical stuff about autonomy, physician-substitutes, and the SF medic's influence on the civilian PA into one article, and try to keep the rest of it (mostly the story of the SF medic) together in a separate article; it would end post-Vietnam, however, instead of carrying forward through the present like the book did, and that is most unfortunate. The bifurcation, however, is a project for this summer.

In any case, I greatly appreciate your continued interested and would be much obliged for any comments or criticisms you're friends might have on draft as it currently stands.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Sincerely, Justin

Boomer-61 04-04-2011 10:57

PA vs SF Medic
 
Fascinating read, thank you for posting Mr. Barr's works in progress. It's nice to know more about the roots of my profession. I was in Augusta, GA at the Medical School of GA taking a "first look" tour of their PA program with my daughter a few weeks ago. The PA student who hosted our portion of the tour was a former SF medic. I didn't think to ask him at the time but wondered which he found more challenging, SF medic school or PA school? I also wondered if there were any PA's that entered the military and then went to SF medic school? And if so which school did they find more challenging?
Scimptar, thank you again.

Surgicalcric 04-04-2011 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer-61 (Post 385066)
... I also wondered if there were any PA's that entered the military and then went to SF medic school? And if so which school did they find more challenging?

Dont know about AD SF but there are a few 18D's who started as PA's in the two NG SF groups. Specifically, there was two who started the 18D course with me; both of them recycled once each in different areas of the course but both trauma related.

Crip

?authority 04-09-2011 09:47

x

glebo 04-09-2011 10:23

IIRC, I've heard of talk up where I am (DOT-D SWC) that they (yeah...I know) were tossing around the idea of allowing 18D's to go to PA school and then letting them go back to tm's. A win-win so to speak. We lose alot of 18D's to go pursue further endeviours, but most do like the tm life.

What do you think of that?? They would have their PA creds for later, or whatever, but still be able to be on a tm...

MtnGoat 04-09-2011 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by glebo (Post 385889)
IIRC, I've heard of talk up where I am (DOT-D SWC) that they (yeah...I know) were tossing around the idea of allowing 18D's to go to PA school and then letting them go back to tm's. A win-win so to speak. We lose alot of 18D's to go pursue further endeviours, but most do like the tm life.

What do you think of that?? They would have their PA creds for later, or whatever, but still be able to be on a tm...

So this 18D would come back to the ODA as additional Officer??

The Reaper 04-09-2011 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by glebo (Post 385889)
IIRC, I've heard of talk up where I am (DOT-D SWC) that they (yeah...I know) were tossing around the idea of allowing 18D's to go to PA school and then letting them go back to tm's. A win-win so to speak. We lose alot of 18D's to go pursue further endeviours, but most do like the tm life.

What do you think of that?? They would have their PA creds for later, or whatever, but still be able to be on a tm...

PAs are not warrants any more, I am not sure what a team would do with a Major or LTC medic, or whether it would be a good idea to spend the time
training a guy to make twice his salary on the outside.

You would also have to have billets for several hundred additional PAs.

Why would Big Army pay for PA school for an 18D E-7 who plans to return to a team?

When the path to PA used to be open for 18Ds, we lost so many that they had to put restrictions on the numbers we sent every year, and once the guy graduates, he is pretty much gone from SF forever, since PA school is an MOS producing course.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

tom kelly 04-15-2011 19:55

Special Forces Medics Remembered:
 
In June, 1964 Team A-312 along with other SF soldiers departed Okinawa for a 6 month TDY to Vietnam. The junior medic Sp/4 George Underwood 21 years old was killed in a batallion sized ambush on July 23, 1964. His replacement also from the 1st SFG (Abn) was Sp/5 Ricardo Davis. He served as a medic on A-312 for the remainer of the tour, which included The Montagnard Uprising in September 1964. Davis remained with SF and was promoted to SFC. and while on a tour that began March 20, 1969 with S O G , He and other team members went missing. On July 11, 1974 The Army declared him a Hostile Casualty, Died while missing, Ground Casualty; Body Not Recovered. He was 33 years old when he became a casualty. The Senior Medic on my Team A-333 in 1964 was Donald J. Fawcett he was killed when the helicopter he was in was shot down on July 3, 1966. May They All Rest In Peace. That is my recollection of a few of the Special Forces Medics I served with, It's been a long time but I have not forgot them...Tom Kelly

doctom54 04-16-2011 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ?authority (Post 385880)
Don't know about PA school, but in medical school and residency, when it really was sucking, I would remember SF and think "At least I'm warm and dry."

LMAO.
Same here. I was in my second year of residency when late one night a LtCol nurse asked me, "How are doing tonight?"
I said "Warm, dry and well fed, Ma'am"

Badger52 05-15-2012 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scimitar (Post 238081)
Hello Gentlemen,

In 2005 Justin Barr was awarded the project for developing a work on the History of the Special Forces Medic.

First, this should be proof for anyone that if one SEARCHES first there's a good chance there is something here.

Up-front: Scimitar I don't know if the final work discussed here is new/expanded material or the re-titled version of your previous update in this thread.

I was perusing my latest e-copy of Cold War Times and read that Justin Barr's work got an Honorable Mention from the John A. Adams '71 Center for Military History and Strategic Analysis, Dept of History, VMI in their 2011 Cold War Essay contest. The essay is entitled:

"History of the Special Forces Medic and the Role of Medicine in Counterinsurgency, 1952-1975" (Justin Barr, Yale University)

I was able to ferret out Mr. Barr's email and have fired a flare, along with congratulations, asking to either get a link or copy since, if properly done, this should be rich in SF history for the period (unless the material is the same as what's already posted).

Badger52 05-19-2012 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger52 (Post 448671)
I was able to ferret out Mr. Barr's email and have fired a flare, along with congratulations, asking to either get a link or copy since, if properly done, this should be rich in SF history for the period (unless the material is the same as what's already posted).

UPDATE: Mr. Barr responded to me & provided a copy of this work, which is different & takes a different approach. As the title above mentioned it examines the role of the SF Medic as a powerful weapon in the CI toolkit. It contains examples & some names/maps/pics, especially from the earliest efforts in Laos.

He has asked that, at this juncture, it not be published, cited, or quoted so I won't be uploading. (And downsized from a Word doc the thing is still a 6.3MB PDF.)

However, he welcomes input from actual SF Medics and would welcome contact from them with their views/critiques. So...

Not being remotely qualified as a broker, if one of the 18D QP's would like to PM me with their email address I will send it to you along with Mr. Barr's email address and you can eval/critique/share within your community to your heart's content. Again, he just asks that it not be published or quoted; apparently it also is not in his mind a finished work yet.
:)

Badger52 05-25-2012 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger52 (Post 449394)
Not being remotely qualified as a broker, if one of the 18D QP's would like to PM me with their email address I will send it to you along with Mr. Barr's email address and you can eval/critique/share within your community to your heart's content. Again, he just asks that it not be published or quoted; apparently it also is not in his mind a finished work yet.
:)

The essay has been handed off to QP 'tom kelly' along with contact info for the author who is open to contact/feedback/critique, etc.
Thanks to you all for the heady times I can only read about.
Salud.


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