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-   -   Two Years and All I got was a Lousy Tab (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16129)

BMT (RIP) 10-28-2007 04:22

Two Years and All I got was a Lousy Tab
 
From mil.com. :D



Posted Fri 26 October 2007 01:26 PM
As a recent graduate of the SF Q course, and being an 18X a lot of things have been running through my head about how the past two years of my life has went and how it could have been used some of the time, to accomplish more important tasks, critical tasks that we XRAYS aren't aware that the rest of the Army does. Maybe it is because the leaders don't realize, or even care that we get the training, or just donít know how to approach the problem but from my knowledge that canít be too astray, 18X's donít know jack about how the regular army is run, common military courtesies and the base culture of the army, and things like REAL unit rank structure and relationships between officer and enlisted (I have a first name basis with many captains from my courses and never really see day to day interaction with E's and O's)

The Q course lacks skills and knowledge that is relevant to the time at hand.

The Q course now pretty much in a nutshell is changing, however the base of knowledge put out is still the same as it were 10 years ago. Teach basic patrolling, be a man among men, be a leader, and LEARN A LANGUAGE. I will tell you that a specialist does not get any leadership experience unless you demand it, which will piss many people off in the process. However, the weathered E-7 gets all of the leadership, and all of the burden. He has the basic troop leadership behind him, why should it fall on him? Is the lonely E-4 not capable of handling the same responsibilities. He should be, right?

Notice the capitalization. Being bi-lingual has been the keystone of SF, train indigenous forces. Though everyoneís combat mission in Iraq and Afghanistan is similar in nature, using translators because of all the dialects in the countries is the accepted way of communicating.

The biggest problem I have in all of the training has been language. Patrolling sucks, but you find purpose in it. You know that youíre gaining knowledge of your strength, weakness, and that of others. Teaching those skills however, is never focused on (when working in Sage it was hard to convert those skills into common sense, I didnít understand why the g's couldnít comprehend a mission)

The problems with Language

-native speakers of Spanish have a hard time with the test

-DLPT 5 in Arabic, French, and Spanish is way too hard for a 3 month, and 4 month course


-there is no way to take a 18 month DLI course and crunch it down to a 2 week block, another 2 week block, and a 3 month block spread out throughout a year. It cannot be done, stop doing it.

-no one will pass the DLPT5 in Arabic in the year 2008 until changes are made to the program

-years ago the language proficiency was O+/0+/0+ which is a very weak understanding of the DLPT. That is getting about 25/65 questions right on the test. It used to be a 20 week course.

-now the standard is raised to 1/1 with a 16 week program, that has seen no change in the way they go about teaching the language, do the math, no amount of studying can immerse you to a understanding to pass it

-there is open conversation of the SOLT testing. Teachers openly told us the answers, and we cheated with another to pass. Now I have a friend that had his language changed to French from Arabic because he failed a SOLT test

-my language was Arabic. I took the Arabic DLPT and passed with a 1/1. My friend failed with a 0+/1 and had to retrain and missed his sage class by 2 months

-I had to relearn the Arabic alphabet in depth 3 times because of the length in between training, wonít even go to the lost vocabulary

-hereís the kicker. I blind shot GUESSED on 40/65 questions on the language test. I donít know how I passed, and I can tell you that all of us who took the test had informed guesses on 80% of the test. I do not know Arabic despite studying 4 hours a night for 3 months straight

-thereís no way you can tell me that you are successfully training SF operators to speak Arabic with the program at hand


PROBLEMS WITH THE Q COURSE

If you want us to be rangers, just send us to the school

If you want us to be linguists, send us to DLI

I know every military program and unit is not perfect. But for a program that is so highly boasted throughout the world training the future SF warrior, I feel cheated, and I hope my training will be enough for the challenges ahead.


The horse and pony show at SWC is disgusting. Nothing is changed in the programs because the leadership isn't aware of it. The burden on the lower leadership would be too much if the truth came out of what was really going on in some of the programs.

I went to the range a combined 2 weeks in 2 years. I Only qualified once on a paper target. Only put around 500 rounds downrange.

I never once drove a humvee or shot a .50 cal. I only learned how to turn one on when I was walking down Ardennes.

This is what you want your future warrior to know?

Thatís only a start to the lack of soldier skills we are allotted time to be current on.



Robin sage is so canned anymore that the training value is almost zilch. Just because two students were shot doesn't mean you have to take the risk assessment equal to a dry fire battle drill, and G's that come out of character after the first day

The reaction to this might be "youíll learn these things when you get to your team"

Well you know what? I am sick of hearing that. In basic training I heard the same thing "youíll learn that once you get to your unit" Well guess what, I am here, and thereís a plethora of things that I donít know, wish I would of known then, or even had the resources to achieve the mission.

These things combined is why the Q course is a waste of 2 years, and the 18xray program is a JOKE

Currently, a few of my friends are being threatened to have their languages changed. They are in the first part of BLITZ and the class ahead of them had their failures of language REMOVED FROM THE COURSE COMPLETELY! GOODBYE! This is most likely due to SWC meeting their numbers for the fiscal year. You failed your language. See you next year, itís too bad you MOS qualified and will forget most of the skills you learned. Itís too bad you couldnít learn Russian and Arabic in 4 months. What a joke.

Itís a sad truth but I would have done just as well at group if I went from basic training to 10th group.

Gripes and complaints they might be, but this is an annoyance of a lot of 18X not being prepared, and a lot of prior enlisted ideas about the course, not just mine.

I thought I would put them out there so maybe you older cats can see how things are now, those coming to the course can be aware of, and maybe things will change a bit.

I am greatful for the fact that the Q course isn't what it used to be, however.

P.S. The title to this thread is a joke.

This message

Pete 10-28-2007 05:28

It's dog and pony show
 
It's Dog and Pony show not Horse and Pony.


Edited to add: I see a number of places where self motivation, after hours study and weekend practice could have helped the young lad.

In two years he never figured out it was only the begining and not the "end all"? The course is the course, now the real learning begins. Does a truck driver in the Army for a few years have that much over a sharp 18X? No.

Ret10Echo 10-28-2007 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Post 186755)
It's Dog and Pony show not Horse and Pony.

Unless it's an equine event...:D

Heck, after 21 years in service I didn't know everything. Even if I thought I had learned everything (because sometimes there are those who think that), I would probably have been a realy ass to be around.

Seems like there might be this misconception that the learning stops once the hat gets planted on your head....

Life can be a pretty lengthy course.

tom kelly 10-28-2007 06:38

"The Lousy Tab"
 
1.STOP COMPLAINING,you sound like a little girl whining.
2.GET TO WORK.Study harder and longer,concentrate on the subject of
learning the language,get help from the instructors.Spend more time in the language lab.NEVER QUIT......If you don't like the current SF training work to change it,write a memo with positive suggestions for reshaping the SF training.READ THE SPECIAL FORCES CREED...NOW READ IT AGAIN...If that
is not you than you are in the wrong place...move out and get on with your life....Just my 02,Regards,tom kelly

BMT (RIP) 10-28-2007 06:45

Ok guys! How long do you think this boy will last on a team?

:munchin

BMT

Pete 10-28-2007 06:56

Ah, he has to get there first
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BMT (Post 186762)
Ok guys! How long do you think this boy will last on a team?

:munchin

BMT

I just have this vision of him coming into the SGM's office, plopping down in a chair, putting his feet up on the SGM's desk and "Hi, Pete, I ain't too smart but I want a spot on your best High Speed, Low Drag Team."

I think his education will begin to pick up speed real quick.

Pete

Ret10Echo 10-28-2007 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Post 186763)
I just have this vision of him coming into the SGM's office, plopping down in a chair, putting his feet up on the SGM's desk and "Hi, Pete, I ain't too smart but I want a spot on your best High Speed, Low Drag Team."

I think his education will begin to pick up speed real quick.

Pete

Speed like terminal velocity?

NousDefionsDoc 10-28-2007 07:23

Amazing. Two years and he doesn't get it at all.

Max_Tab 10-28-2007 08:32

Someone with more computer skills than me, should try and find out this fine soldier's name. It would be good to keep track on his career, in or out of SF.:D

The Reaper 10-28-2007 09:13

A fine example of Generation Why/Whine.

He could have had ten years in training and still not have learned everything, or been happy.

Some of the points bear consideration, but it occurs to me that the best thing for him would be to reclass as an 11B and go to the 82nd, where he can see how the Army really works. I am sure that he and his NCOs and officers will get along really well.:rolleyes:

TR

Snaquebite 10-28-2007 10:22

No Drive, No REAL Desire, No Individual Effort, No.....No.....No.... Where's my spoon? I need you to feed me.....= NO GO.

LongWire 10-28-2007 10:33

You have a link to this?

BMT (RIP) 10-28-2007 10:44

http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic

Army Forum and then under SF Forum.

Snaquebite 10-28-2007 10:45

Google got this

http://forums.military.com/eve/forum.../9370047251001

Also got this from his profile.
TheLengendaryFailure
Quote:

Jake A Kesran
Bio
Not available
Conflicts & Operations
A few good replies so far. I like the 60 year old college student's reply.

Quote:

You know something what a strange thread started here, A person goes thru S.F. training and complains. Claims he has the tab, but won't show it on his profile. Hmmmmmmm..

Maybe if he is so dissatified with the S.F. he should give the tab back.

I don't recall any training making one a expert coming out of the box of training, but rather the basic knowledge of what needs to be done.

You take that, mix it with experience and wal-la, you might have a expert..notice I said "Might" that is left up to person wheter to apply his experience with what he was taught at school.

I'm back in college (age 60) and I can say the same thing about that education also.

But as time and "Experience" has taught me, its just a stepping stone, its the path to success, the rest is up to me wheter to make it a success or failure.

Don't find him listed in AKO

Pete 10-28-2007 11:15

Screen Name
 
What a screen name?

Recent grad of the Q and his profile lists him as a SSG? OK you young stud muffin 18Xs, what is the fastest you're making E-6 these days?

Liked the bit about - he would be an 18A if only.

3SoldierDad 10-28-2007 11:51

Smells fishy...
 
The most discouraging aspect to this guy and his post is that he didn't get weeded out to begin with.

For all his learning this guy didn't seem to get one once of wisdom - He sounds like a fool. It's a bummer to even think about a man like this wearing the SF tab. From what I observe, the Q is only one piece of the puzzle - the first piece - the first step in a long journey. The "whine generation" often, it seems to me, wants to skip experience and get handed the Prize. A Prize that can only come with years in the field with a team. I've been on this board regularly for months and I haven't read about any short-cuts.

As a former language teacher with an MA in Linguistics, let me say - Classroom settings for language are NEVER ideal - NEVER, NEVER, NEVER - this is not the Q's problem. It is simply an educational reality. What would this guy suggest - Go on deployment to the Box with NO EXPOSURE to Arabic? Or, to spend two years isolated in a language school? Give me a break... Both those options would be worse. So, folks prepare the best way they can - sitting their butt down and learning from books, tapes, videos, and instructors for a finite period = PREPPING to go to the field. Not perfect, but as good as it gets in this imperfect world.

In addition to be being a naive cry baby - this dude strikes me as an immature ingrate and is walking around with a big chip on his soldier (that hopefully someone will knock off).

Finally, IMO, this guy's whole memo smells fishy to me.


Three Soldier Dad....Chuck



.

LongWire 10-28-2007 12:10

Shot Over...........

Scimitar 10-28-2007 12:11

Quote:

Recent grad of the Q and his profile lists him as a SSG? OK you young stud muffin 18Xs, what is the fastest you're making E-6 these days?
My understanding is you hit
E4 = 9-12
E5 around = 18 Ė 24 (still in Q)
But you hit your team as an E5 and get the E6 about 6-12 months in
I think youíre lucky to hit E7 until after youíve been in a team for at least 4 years (guess)

I'm not a BTDT and I am far from perfect and still learning SF ways, but I would expect some guy who has made it thru the Q course to have far better SA then to bitch on a public forum.

Some of the stuff he discusses about Language doesnít add up with the information I have.

His Rank seems a bit off and heís lost all his Language skills between blocks, give me a break talk to your mate who is also learning Arabic, there everywhere. Sesh!

Sounds like a poser who didn't make it to me, and wants to tell the world about how it wasn't his fault.

out

out

Surgicalcric 10-28-2007 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scimitar (Post 186810)
...I am not a BTDT...

...he’s lost all his Language skills between blocks, give me a break talk to your mate who is also learning Arabic, there everywhere...

Scimitar:

When your time after class, between language blocks, is spent studying surgery and anesthesia or prepping and cleaning til 2am when you have to be in class again at 6, or you are studying radio wave propagation and antenna theory, or a myriad of other things covered during the MOS portion(s) of the SFQC you can feel free to comment on how you are sustaining proficiency in your target language between blocks 1 & 2 and 2 & Blitz. Its easy to arm chair quarterback the guy when you are still sitting on a bean bag. ;) I will be anxious to see if you feel the same after not formally studying language for 40 weeks during the Delta course.

Crip

jbour13 10-28-2007 13:20

Sounds like a bitter poser to me.

No listing in AKO, wrong timeframe for rank given that he's an 18X just out of the Q.

Not consistent from the young men that I see coming to my unit every few months. Most are the quiet, reserved, and well mannered soldier that we expect to see. The kind that is eyes and ears open, mouth welded shut.

My humble $.02

SSG B

Jack Moroney (RIP) 10-28-2007 13:37

Having been around longer than some and having been involved in the Q course over a period of decades both directly and working with the outcome, I have heard every bitch, moan, snivel, grip, whine, better idea, good idea, lousy idea, terrible idea, if only this, and what about that, und so weiter. BUT the end result is that the troop that comes through that experience always, for the most part, has been able to exceed expectations and change worlds. So what exactly is the problem:rolleyes: I have read EOC critques, changed programs when it made sense and made MFRs for future implementation when resources became available, and laughed my ass off at folks who fell into the "if wishes were horses then beggars would ride" category. There are very few perfect situations where you can match resources with requirements and have to do what you can with what you have and get on with it. Just my 2 cents.

FearMonkey 10-28-2007 13:40

Oh boo frickin' hoo. Guess what, when I put my Green Beret on all I could do was slap the dashboard of a Humvee like a monkey, and the only place I'd ever seen a .50 cal was in the movies. But you know what... I'm leaving for an advanced Humvee driving course in a couple weeks, and I can set head space and timing like a champ. Guess who's going to be riding shotgun on the Ma' Deuce in Iraq? I know when it's appropriate to use proper military courtesy and when things can be more relaxed. I've put more boatloads of rounds downrange learning transition drills, shooting and moving drills, and CQB training in the past couple months than in my entire time in the Army. Furthermore, we've got SFAUC coming up. I've already been to language refresher where I got a chance to dust the cobwebs off my Russian, and I've learned more about practical application of commo in the past 6 months than I ever did in the course.

And to top it all off... I'm just on the B-Team. So stop besmirching the reputation of my generation with your child-like incessant whining and go seek that knowledge and experience you want so badly. You earned that damned Green Beret... NOW ACT LIKE ONE!!

Scimitar 10-28-2007 14:40

Roger that Cric,

Back in my whole

out

jwt5 10-28-2007 14:42

The person did say that he's never been in the "big Army" so he wouldn't know that it's the same way in the 'big Army' when you're going through your MOS school. I never even sat in a humvee until I made it to my first unit. Heck, my first time firing a M2 was during the invasion of Iraq.

Like someone said, he's probably a poser, or someone who just wants to whine and the only reason we're reading about it is because it continues the "they don't get the training/equipment they need" mantra....

I WISH I had half the training someone in the Q had let alone the myrad of training you QPs receive after being put on a team. If he is really in the Q, then I hope someone finds out a name and he's "trained" properly :lifter

The Reaper 10-28-2007 14:50

Given the lack of an AKO account, he has either used a pseudonym, or is not a soldier.

TR

Pete 10-28-2007 14:51

The first page...
 
If you young lads and other posters will notice the first page was all guys who had been through the Q Course, the second page is starting to get some that ain't started yet and some that never will.

For those that ain't yet and them that never will be, why don't we reserve the comments.

Fear Monkey, Crip you guys are fairly new out of the course so I'll let you do the heavy lifting now :lifter.

Pete

Never piss off the B Team, most of the people who work there can have big impacts on your future:D

HeavyDrop 10-28-2007 15:12

You will never know it all
 
I was a signal guy and now I am an 18E. I thought I knew some stuff about comms. In just under a year on a team I have learned so much I have had to start forgetting other stuff to make room for it. Coming out of the course I was anxious about the things I didn't know. But I found out real quick that the people who have the most trouble are the people who think they ALREADY KNOW IT ALL when they show up. Your team (if you ever get to one) knows that you don't know certain things. They will not allow you to fail.

If after reading all of these responses you still feel this way please download the following form and turn it in to the appropriate authorities. We keep a handy supply of these in the team room just for people like you.

http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=2026

Penn 10-28-2007 16:07

removed the post

JMI 10-28-2007 16:42

removed...

Surgicalcric 10-28-2007 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Post 186834)
If you young lads and other posters will notice the first page was all guys who had been through the Q Course...

For those that ain't yet and them that never will be, why don't we reserve the comments...

To reiterate what the SGM hinted at, if you havent been to the SFQC, graduated and have first hand knowledge of the course reserve your comments for another thread.

Crip

Griv 11-17-2007 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by FearMonkey (Post 186822)
Oh boo frickin' hoo. Guess what, when I put my Green Beret on all I could do was slap the dashboard of a Humvee like a monkey, and the only place I'd ever seen a .50 cal was in the movies. But you know what... I'm leaving for an advanced Humvee driving course in a couple weeks, and I can set head space and timing like a champ. Guess who's going to be riding shotgun on the Ma' Deuce in Iraq? I know when it's appropriate to use proper military courtesy and when things can be more relaxed. I've put more boatloads of rounds downrange learning transition drills, shooting and moving drills, and CQB training in the past couple months than in my entire time in the Army. Furthermore, we've got SFAUC coming up. I've already been to language refresher where I got a chance to dust the cobwebs off my Russian, and I've learned more about practical application of commo in the past 6 months than I ever did in the course.

And to top it all off... I'm just on the B-Team. So stop besmirching the reputation of my generation with your child-like incessant whining and go seek that knowledge and experience you want so badly. You earned that damned Green Beret... NOW ACT LIKE ONE!!

Great reply to that thread. Almost the same has gone for a lot of buddies that showed up to group and within months have been to numerous schools/ranges learning exactly what they didn't hit on during the 'Q'. *Edit in* Most of them are as well 18X's that don't have a "clue" this poster speaks of.

Daver 11-17-2007 23:44

2 years??
 
He probably got recycled somewhere if he was there 2 years! When I attended the SFQC, the ONLY guys who got to shoot were the 18B's anyway...maybe the O's shot a little, but that's it, so if he put 500 rounds downrange, he did more than most did back then and we turned out OK.

Max_Tab 11-18-2007 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daver (Post 189117)
He probably got recycled somewhere if he was there 2 years! When I attended the SFQC, the ONLY guys who got to shoot were the 18B's anyway...maybe the O's shot a little, but that's it, so if he put 500 rounds downrange, he did more than most did back then and we turned out OK.

I agree. The entire Q-course we went to the range once. We qualified on m-4 and pistol. And for the record that was the first time I had ever fired a pistol in the army.

Needle D 11-18-2007 01:24

My .02
 
In the 2002-2004 timeframe we went to the range twice during the whole course. I would agree that it was about 500 rounds for the whole course.

I donít think that he is a poser, (some unfortunate team will get him) some of his gripes and whines are things that people going through the course really do see as faults. It did suck going to a team knowing they were going to count on you to get the job done and feeling like you knew nothing. However, thatís what it is supposed to be like. The team will take you and teach you when you donít know how to do something. 18Bs will sign out M2s from the arms room to teach you how to do headspace and timing. 18Es will teach you how to turn on a PSC-5. 18Cs will tell you not to eat the C4. 18D will teach you how to pack a bullet wound. And the 18z well he will teach u everything else.

Basically you are a blank SF soldier when u get out of the course. Your team will mold and equip you to be a contributing member of the team.

deanwells 11-18-2007 08:00

He can whine all he wants...I'm sure he'll get a swift kick in the middle and learn the answers to all his gripes. 18 X's these days can make E-6 when they report to their team as long as the leadership deems him fit for promotion.

later,

dw

Para 11-18-2007 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete (Post 186799)
What a screen name?

Recent grad of the Q and his profile lists him as a SSG? OK you young stud muffin 18Xs, what is the fastest you're making E-6 these days?

Liked the bit about - he would be an 18A if only.

18X is not a functional MOS, it is a training MOS. Therefore,you can not be promoted to an NCO rank as an 18X. Sometimes, 18X's get lucky a get a set of 11B orders coming out of OSUT, in which case they are eligable for promotion should there records be ammended to reflect. If not, they are stuck at E4 until they graduate and get a 18 series MOS. If they have a functional MOS, they can go to the E5 board during MOS or langauge phase. All requirments for primary and secondary zone consideration remain in effect for someone with an Infantry MOS, i.e. 4 months TIS and 18 months TIS. No way he can make SSG as an Infantryman as requirements remain at 5 months TIG and 48 months TIS. From what I understand, primary and secondary zone requirements for promotion to E6 are waived for someone who has a 18 series MOS.

So, it is concievable that the kid could make E5 while in the Q Course. Then move to Group and because he is 18 series, go to the E6 board as soon as possible. I have seen it. Although, most Team Sergeants don't do this and make the kid prove himself before going to the board. I know one 18X who got out upon expiration of his contract still an E5.

As far as I know, E7 selection requirements still remain the same. Kid is going to need 2 years TIG and 6 years TIS in order to be eligable.

SF_VOL 11-18-2007 13:18

Quote:

The first page...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you young lads and other posters will notice the first page was all guys who had been through the Q Course, the second page is starting to get some that ain't started yet and some that never will.

For those that ain't yet and them that never will be, why don't we reserve the comments.

Fear Monkey, Crip you guys are fairly new out of the course so I'll let you do the heavy lifting now .

Pete
I'm new out of the course as well and have three years prior service as an 11B with the 101st so I'll add my thoughts also. Granted, as with any school in the Army, you're going to have complaints. Everyone does. Yes, I believe the language portion of the Q Course could definitely use some improvements! Yes, it would have been nice to shoot more. But while I was in the course and once I graduated the course, I fully understood that I was not going to learn everything there and be an expert at every single SF task. I knew, and still know that there is a ton of stuff that I haven't learned yet. And I'm looking forward to continuing on in my SF education through various schools, etc. That's the beauty of it all. You learn the basic SF skills in the course. After that, you get the opportunity to learn from the guys on your team or at other schools where others have experiences/knowledge that you don't have. In my opinion, to learn from others and to continuously add new tools to your tool box should be something that every new guy should strive for. I would never say that the time I spent in the Q Course was a waste of time. All in all, it was time very well spent that laid the ground work for everything to come.

rab97 12-18-2007 17:00

I too am a recent graduate. This guy will have a long and illustrious career as a support dude somewhere. The course isn't perfect, but it's pretty damn good. The one thing this guy should have learned is the ability to learn on the fly and put the knowledge to use. I'm no SFAS cadre, but I'm willing to bet they assess candidates ability to pick up info quickly and put it to use. His true colors will shine through, and he won't last too long on a Team.

Gruzzen 12-21-2007 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Para (Post 189130)
18X is not a functional MOS, it is a training MOS. Therefore,you can not be promoted to an NCO rank as an 18X. Sometimes, 18X's get lucky a get a set of 11B orders coming out of OSUT, in which case they are eligable for promotion should there records be ammended to reflect. If not, they are stuck at E4 until they graduate and get a 18 series MOS. If they have a functional MOS, they can go to the E5 board during MOS or langauge phase. All requirments for primary and secondary zone consideration remain in effect for someone with an Infantry MOS, i.e. 4 months TIS and 18 months TIS.

This is a common mis-conception among everybody except 18x in the course. Every single 18X has a MOS. Every Single 18X is Airborne Qualifiied. The idea that we went through OSUT, graduated, and stayed, somehow, non-mos Qualified has always astounded me; especially when Tabbed guys and Officers say it.

We are all 11B and with the P identifier.

Currently, No 18X will get promoted while in the Q course to E5 until they hit their Primary zone, which is 36 months. Every single E3 gets promoted to E4 while in the Q course, and for the 18X's this usually happens like clockwork on their 1 year in service, or around that time. Usually before they start MOS. IF an E2 snags a 18X contract in Basic and did not enlist as an 18X to start as an E3 then they are usually promoted twice in a row.

.....

This system in place royally screws over those that do the 18D course. Everybody I started with have already Graduated and are E5 (some E6) while those of use in the 18D don't get promoted for almost 40 weeks later, mostly because "We haven't done anything". This is even after we are now qualified in 3 MOSes , 11B, S68W, and 18D. However, I can understand their reasoning, because there's alot of people that still fail out, and there's no need to kick E5's back to the RA if they aren't needed. Not only that, but we are X-rays. :)

Currently, those finishing their MoS phase are getting their E5 orders handed to them. That is, everybody except the 18D's as their orders are getting placed into their packets without a copy being given to the soldier. I've seen my E5, and 18D MOS orders, though we never recieved a copy, and nothing was put out to us as a class. All other MOS's are wearing E5's and have been given copies of their orders. This has been the norm for the previous 3 graduating MOS classes

....
Sorry about that interjection
...
Back to the Reason that so many people think that 18X is a MOS. It's placed in our ERB as our Primary MOS. It's not a MOS. It's a contract type. However, that seems to be the way that people everywhere understand it to be.


edit - Spelling, etc

Eagle5US 12-22-2007 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruzzen (Post 192733)

This system in place royally screws over those that do the 18D course. Everybody I started with have already Graduated and are E5 (some E6) while those of use in the 18D don't get promoted for almost 40 weeks later, mostly because "We haven't done anything". This is even after we are now qualified in 3 MOSes , 11B, S68W, and 18D. However, I can understand their reasoning, because there's alot of people that still fail out, and there's no need to kick E5's back to the RA if they aren't needed. Not only that, but we are X-rays. :)

You aren't qualified as an 18D until you graduate the Q course.

People that fail out after MOS phase are constant headaches....WHY? "Because I am an 18D who didn't finish the Q"
Translation - not an 18D

THe system has always been less favorable to 18D's...even when our medical portion alone was 56 weeks long. Guys (Bravos) went into the Q, graduated and were on a team for more than a year before we ever graduated. Guys would FAIL OUT of Fort Sam (yes, our first medical year was at Fort Sam 20 years ago), go to the Bravo or Charlie course, graduate, and STILL be operational for a year or more before we got to GP.

You aren't being screwed, you are being given the benefit of some truly incredible training that can be gotten no place else in the world. The focus of that training is saving the lives of the men who will depend on you to do exactly that. It can't be rushed, half assed, or "shortened" any more than it already has.
If you are seeking acceptance in SOF for rank - you picked the wrong MOS. Very few D's get picked up for E-8.

Think about your choices to this point - you may need to consider another one.

Eagle


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